Claes 8345/34 Patcher Needle Size

[Kristian99]

Hello everyone, bit of confusion over finding the correct needle for this patcher machine. After doing some reading I believe the machine takes system 88 needles? Problem is that they are a bit difficult to find where I am. Does anyone know if there are any other systems which would be compatible with this machine? Seeing tons of needles being sold in size 120/19 which is what I am looking for however they are not system 88. 

[Constabulary]

The only needle that could probably fit is the 332LG (this is the longer version of the 332 / 29x3). 332LG and System 88 have the same length BUT the 332LG has a slightly larger needle shank diameter than the System 88. So maybe they fit - maybe not. But to be honest I guess they wont but depends on the needle hole in the needle bar.

 

[Kristian99]

These are the needles the machine came with and they do sew great. But in terms of the "system" they would be 214x2 (aka 328 LR) if I am understanding it correctly. So totally different from the manufacturer recommended "system 88" and different from "332 LG" and somehow they still work... Just a bit confused understanding what a system is and how they differentiate. 

[shoepatcher]

What is the model of your machine?   This info is important!

 Claes made a model that would use the 214x1,1 needles  I believe it was a  8345 /40.   I would look for a shorter needle set screw.  That is a standard metric thread so set screws should not be to hard to find a much shorter one.

glenn

Edited February 8, 2023 by shoepatcher

[Constabulary]

I think the Mod. 200 came in a subclass for 328 / 214 needles. Here is a list of sub classes for the 8345:

 

 

[Constabulary]

Just checked again looks like they had a 8245 with 328 / 214 needles also. So it is well possible that your machine (subclass 43) takes 328 / 214 needles. BUT the 328 needle system is special cause different needle sizes have different needle shank diameters.

Personally I never have seen a 8345 with 328 needles. A rare machine and I know someone who wants one - right. Glenn?

[shoepatcher]

C,   Yep I want it!!!

the 200 heavy duty version was the 200-3A.  It had a lift of 15mm and used the needle system 328 as well.

glenn

[Constabulary]

alright - checked the parts list and looks like the 328 / 214 was the needle for the 40, 43 & 44 subclass. So if yours is a  34 (mistyped?) then it takes System 88 and if it is a 43 then it takes the 328 / 214 needle.

Confused?

[Kristian99]

4 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

What is the model of your machine?   This info is important!

 Claes made a model that would use the 214x1,1 needles  I believe it was a  8345 /40.   I would look for a shorter needle set screw.  That is a standard metric thread so set screws should not be to hard to find a much shorter one.

glenn

Changing out the needle set screw is definitely on my to do list. Have been cleaning it up this past week and re tapping a few stripped out threads. Only a couple things left to do like get a spool holder and change out those little plastic rollers. Here she is!  included the model number and it is a subclass 34. So I guess if I can get my hands on some sys 88 needles I will give them a shot as well. 

[Kristian99]

As always thank you for all the help! Will post soon regarding another Claes machine I will be starting on. 

[shoepatcher]

I think you indeed have the heavier model.  It uses the 214x 1 needle which is the same as the 328 system.  The fact that the model plates says 8345/34 and not 8345/30 means it is the heavy one and that you can put a 214 x 1 needle in it.  The shank on the 214 x1 is larger than on a 88 needle which has a shank of 1.9mm.   The 214 x 1 shank is 2.5mm.  Damn!!!  You have one I have been looking for almost 30 years!!

You want the 214x 1 or 2 needle system.   I am in Oxford, MI.  I see you were in Dearborn, MI.  You coming back to the states anytime soon?    I have a 8345/30 if you want to trade. We would only have to trade heads!!!

Edited February 9, 2023 by shoepatcher

[Kristian99]

3 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

I think you indeed have the heavier model.  It uses the 214x 1 needle which is the same as the 328 system.  The fact that the model plates says 8345/34 and not 8345/30 means it is the heavy one and that you can put a 214 x 1 needle in it.  The shank on the 214 x1 is larger than on a 88 needle which has a shank of 1.9mm.   The 214 x 1 shank is 2.5mm.  Damn!!!  You have one I have been looking for almost 30 years!!

You want the 214x 1 or 2 needle system.   I am in Oxford, MI.  I see you were in Dearborn, MI.  You coming back to the states anytime soon?    I have a 8345/30 if you want to trade. We would only have to trade heads!!!

Makes a lot of sense now. They are pretty difficult to come by even in Europe cant imagine about the US. This particular machine was my fathers so ill be keeping it BUT if I manage to find any other heavy duties in the future I can get in touch. 

[Constabulary]

I do not agree that the 34 subclass is the "heavy subclass" - see above list of sub classes. The 34 is the same as the 30 but with motor stand. The motor stand makes it a 34 everything else is like the 30 incl. needle System 88 - the head only w/o treadle or motor stand is the 30. Check the list. IMO the heavier class has the higher foot lift as well, meaning the machine that takes the 214 needles should have a 15mm foot lift.

Thats at least how I understand the subclass list. But I`m maybe wrong.

How high is the foot lift on your machine?

[shoepatcher]

C,

My info tells me it should be a 3A on the plate not a 34.  The fact that  you can get a 214 x1 needle in the needle bar I think means it it the heavy duty version.   Enlarging the needle hole in the needle bar to accommodate a 2.5mm shank cannot be easy.  Do we know if the lift is 12mm or 15mm??   That needs to be checked!!

glenn

Edited February 10, 2023 by shoepatcher
grammar

[DonInReno]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:15 AM, Kristian99 said:

So totally different from the manufacturer recommended "system 88" and different from "332 LG" and somehow they still work... Just a bit confused understanding what a system is and how they differentiate. 

 

There is not a requirement for manufacturers to label a needle size using a particular needle system, so there are often multiple needle systems that are mostly interchangeable.   I say mostly, because the original specifications may be slightly different, but a more generic needle is the correct shank size and close enough in length, scarf shape and location, and eye location, to work ok.

If you have needles that work well, you won’t gain anything with a different system.  

Before you had the machine there’s always the chance that the needle bar was replaced or the needle hole was enlarged - it’s pretty commonly done to cut down on the amount of different needles someone would have to keep in stock, or if someone gets “free” needles at work or from a friend - we discuss how to do that here pretty regularly.

 

[shoepatcher]

The original needle hole in the needle bar would  accommodate a *8 needle system which is 1.9mm shank size the 332LG is 2.0 shank size.  That was hard to get that to fit.  The 214 x 1 is 2.50mm shank size.  you would have to remove the needle bar and machine it to accommodate the larger needle.  Not easy unless you replaced it.   Did your dad but the machine new?

Also check the lift of the feet please to see if 12mm or 15mm.

glenn 

Edited February 13, 2023 by shoepatcher

[shoepatcher]

Ok  I went thru my literature on the 8345 this weekend.  The 8345/30 was the sewing head only.  The 8345/34 was the head and a motorized stand.  It uses system 88 needles.  If the 214x1 needle will fit into the  the needle bar, that means the needle hole has been modified.  Lift is 12mm.   Your were correct Constabulary.  It is a model 30 and not the heavy duty version which was the 8345/40.

glenn