Sewing machine suggestions

[Wizcrafts]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:20 PM, Spicytacoman said:

Looking for recommendations for best bang for the buck under $1500. Im currently making leather goods no thicker than 1/4 mostly wallets at 3/16-1/4. Making totes and clutches not nearly as thick. 

I am currently looking at the consew 206rb-5 and the consew 1206rb-1.

Leaning towards the 1206rb-1 since it is cheaper and has the servo motor already. This is my first "real" sewing machine and going without the servo may be too fast for me.

Also, if there are any recommendations that are cheaper that are highly recommended for my work criteria I would be happy to take a look too!.

Please no recommendations over $1500 that is almost uncomfortable already for me

 

I think the P-1206RB will work for you. I have a room full of sewing machines, but only 2 have safety clutches. I do get thread jams from time to time and stop as soon as I sense that something sounds or feels wrong. I cut the threads from the project, then fish the top thread out of the shuttle. Then I resume and am more careful about holding the top thread AND bottom thread back. BUT, sometimes that's not possible. If I can't hold back the bottom thread, I at least push it back so it is out of the way of the needle on the first few stitches. Holding back the starting threads AND not crossing over a loose bottom thread goes a long way to avoiding a thread jam.

If you can't afford a new walking foot machine, look for a good used machine in local ads. If there is an upholstery shop nearby, ask them if they have a used walking foot machine for sale. I did that during the Covid shutdown, when my machines were locked up in a building that hosted our shop. But, I had customers wanting things sewn despite the stay home order. Rather than try to get together with the owner's husband multiple times, I asked a boat upholstery shop about used machines and he just happened to have a used, but not abused Singer 211G156, which has reverse. I took it home to sew at home for customers who still needed work done. It later ended up in the shop and routinely sews thick leather jackets and chaps that need zippers, or things needing hemming, where reverse is handy to lock in the stitches without spinning the work around 180 degrees ("Poor Man's Reverse"). I paid $800 cash for it, with its clutch motor. Later, I upgraded to a servo motor and am perfectly happy with it. I use #69, 92 or 138 thread, top and bottom, according the the thickness and forces trying to pull the layers apart.

That $800 used machine was probably worth $2000 or more when new.

[Spicytacoman]

@Wizcrafts

I seen a guy post a 206rb5 on facebook marketplace an hour away from me for $900 5 hours ago. I messaged him hopefully I can get it. Anything I should look for when inspecting it?

Edited April 15, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[Wizcrafts]

14 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

@Wizcrafts

I seen a guy post a 206rb5 on facebook marketplace an hour away from me for $900 5 hours ago. I messaged him hopefully I can get it. Anything I should look for when inspecting it?

Just ask the seller if they can show you that it sews These are solid machines. It would be wonderful if he could give you some pointers to get you going. Ask if he has some thread and needles for it and some extra bobbins and some oil. This is the machine you were after! If you turn the hand wheel, always turn it towards you from the top, in a counterclockwise direction. Doing so while holding onto the top and bottom thread should result in the top thread picking up the bobbin thread and overlapping it. If there is material under the feet, a stitch should be formed. If it can be plugged in, ask to see it in action. If it has a servo motor you won't have as long of a learning curve to control the speed.

A complete machine and table will have an unwarped table mounted on a steel K-Legs frame. There will be a motor hanging down and a rod connecting the control arm to a foot pedal. There will be another smaller pedal that lifts the feet, which releases the top thread tension. There should be a drawer with accessories. On top there should be a bobbin winder, unless there is one built into the machine head. Also, there should be a thread stand with platforms for 2 or 4 spools of thread and some kind of flexible work light. There should be a switch box under the right front end of the table to turn the motor on and off. It'll probably have pushbuttons, or a rocker switch. Make sure the power and motor all work.

Good luck in advance!

[chrisash]

Industrial machines are built for heavy use, and few have problems that cannot be repaired by the home user with assistance for YouTube posts like Uwe, so why not consider a used model, you can always send your one leather for them to send back stitched to prove as much as possible that they work 100%, all my machines were brought of eBay and no problems, after all many cars are brought secondhand with no problems at far higher cost

The second point is that hand sewn means nothing to the average person unless you explain that the two threads are independent of each other and if one breaks- gets worn or cut the item is still usable, Don't assume the potential customer understand what is common knowledge to experts, they need to be told fully in your marketing and sales

[Handstitched]

1 hour ago, chrisash said:

The second point is that hand sewn means nothing to the average person unless you explain that the two threads are independent of each other and if one breaks- gets worn or cut the item is still usable, Don't assume the potential customer understand what is common knowledge to experts, they need to be told fully in your marketing and sales

This is a discussion that we've all  had before, but you're absolutely  right . I won't go any further as it will very quickly go off topic     

@Spicytacoman  good luck finding your ideal machine . Its not an easy choice . 

HS 

 

[blue duck]

@Wizcrafts that was an great thread / sewing explanation. Thanks for taking the time.

[Spicytacoman]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Just ask the seller if they can show you that it sews These are solid machines. It would be wonderful if he could give you some pointers to get you going. Ask if he has some thread and needles for it and some extra bobbins and some oil. This is the machine you were after! If you turn the hand wheel, always turn it towards you from the top, in a counterclockwise direction. Doing so while holding onto the top and bottom thread should result in the top thread picking up the bobbin thread and overlapping it. If there is material under the feet, a stitch should be formed. If it can be plugged in, ask to see it in action. If it has a servo motor you won't have as long of a learning curve to control the speed.

A complete machine and table will have an unwarped table mounted on a steel K-Legs frame. There will be a motor hanging down and a rod connecting the control arm to a foot pedal. There will be another smaller pedal that lifts the feet, which releases the top thread tension. There should be a drawer with accessories. On top there should be a bobbin winder, unless there is one built into the machine head. Also, there should be a thread stand with platforms for 2 or 4 spools of thread and some kind of flexible work light. There should be a switch box under the right front end of the table to turn the motor on and off. It'll probably have pushbuttons, or a rocker switch. Make sure the power and motor all work.

Good luck in advance!

I love you man! I dont know you but, I can tell you want others to succeed and you go out of your way to give them the best fighting chance when you dont have to...

Thank you being who you are my friend it is incredible.

[MtlBiker]

@Spicytacoman - I know all about not having the budget to get what you want, SIGH, but one thing I've learned over the years is to do your utmost best to get the machine/product that most suits your intended use.  It's false economy to buy the wrong thing and then find you need something better.  Much more costly.  I also agree with the comments suggesting that a cylinder arm machine (with flatbed table attachment) would be the ideal machine for what you intend to do.  If I could only have/afford one machine, it would without question be a cylinder arm with flatbed table attachment.  I started my industrial machine (habit) with a flatbed.  And shortly after added a cylinder arm.  If I had to do it all over again, I'd just get one suitable cylinder arm.

Maybe you could negotiate a better price on that used Cobra 26?  Maybe instead of buying what very likely is the wrong machine for you now, you'd be better off saving up your money and waiting until you can afford the right machine for your purposes.

You talk about sewing "medium temper chrome tan at 14 oz"... is that just one layer or more?  Whatever thickness you are using, you'll often be sewing double and even triple layers. 

And I'd also suggest searching for a good used machine... you seem convinced that new will get you less problems but unless the dealer you get it from is close by, you may not actually have less problems with new.  If I was in your shoes I wouldn't hesitate to get a used one, especially with the help of the members here to help you determine if it's a good machine and worth the price.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Spicytacoman]

6 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

@Spicytacoman - I know all about not having the budget to get what you want, SIGH, but one thing I've learned over the years is to do your utmost best to get the machine/product that most suits your intended use.  It's false economy to buy the wrong thing and then find you need something better.  Much more costly.  I also agree with the comments suggesting that a cylinder arm machine (with flatbed table attachment) would be the ideal machine for what you intend to do.  If I could only have/afford one machine, it would without question be a cylinder arm with flatbed table attachment.  I started my industrial machine (habit) with a flatbed.  And shortly after added a cylinder arm.  If I had to do it all over again, I'd just get one suitable cylinder arm.

Maybe you could negotiate a better price on that used Cobra 26?  Maybe instead of buying what very likely is the wrong machine for you now, you'd be better off saving up your money and waiting until you can afford the right machine for your purposes.

You talk about sewing "medium temper chrome tan at 14 oz"... is that just one layer or more?  Whatever thickness you are using, you'll often be sewing double and even triple layers. 

And I'd also suggest searching for a good used machine... you seem convinced that new will get you less problems but unless the dealer you get it from is close by, you may not actually have less problems with new.  If I was in your shoes I wouldn't hesitate to get a used one, especially with the help of the members here to help you determine if it's a good machine and worth the price.

Best of luck to you!

 

I mainly work with 4-5oz leather and given the total amount of 14oz with multiple layers at most for wallets. I have been considering this advice for a used machine since it has been stated as these machines are meant to last and shouldn't realistically have much issues that can't be fixed easily according to you all  

I really appreciate it. I hope this guy sells me the 206rb-5 for $900. It is a flatbed however I don't really know what else to consider besides the outlaw posted above! So much information to find and not enough knowledge on my end to differentiate what the right end goal is besides a budget haha

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Spicytacoman said:

I mainly work with 4-5oz leather and given the total amount of 14oz with multiple layers at most for wallets. I have been considering this advice for a used machine since it has been stated as these machines are meant to last and shouldn't realistically have much issues that can't be fixed easily according to you all  

I really appreciate it. I hope this guy sells me the 206rb-5 for $900. It is a flatbed however I don't really know what else to consider besides the outlaw posted above! So much information to find and not enough knowledge on my end to differentiate what the right end goal is besides a budget haha

FWIW, my first industrial machine was the 206RB-5 and I absolutely love it. But in making pouches, totes and purses I soon found the need/desire for a cylinder arm machine. One machine never seems to be enough!  But as I said, if I could only have one, it would be a cylinder arm with flatbed table attachment.  But believe it or not, I’m now drooling over a post bed machine. Once addicted, it never stops.

My opinion, is that you will love the 206 if you get it but my crystal ball says you’ll be wanting a cylinder arm machine before a year is over.

 

[Spicytacoman]

So let's entertain this for kicks and giggles.

To get a cylinder arm i would have to spend over $2k correct? Like the cowboy 3200 or the cobra class 26? Any other options you would recommend?

I like that the cowboy is triple feed that won't mark my leather but limited to 2 spi..I ask because if I had to I could get the Tandypro Class 26 which im assuming is the same machine as the cobra class 26 and not have to worry about paying for shipping..

Im not certain I will but I may convince myself to do it if it is realistically worth the money as a one time purchase.of course if there are cheaper solutions for a cylinder arm that will work for the 14oz wallet or bags im making id like to hear those too.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

I like that the cowboy is triple feed that won't mark my leather but limited to 2 spi.

My Cowboy CB4500 does go up to 2 stitches per inch when the lever is all the way up or down. I used that spacing once to pre-punch holes for edge riveting a custom belt. I used a #27 needle which is the largest I could find at the time in system 7x3.

[MtlBiker]

4 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

So let's entertain this for kicks and giggles.

To get a cylinder arm i would have to spend over $2k correct? Like the cowboy 3200 or the cobra class 26? Any other options you would recommend?

I like that the cowboy is triple feed that won't mark my leather but limited to 2 spi..I ask because if I had to I could get the Tandypro Class 26 which im assuming is the same machine as the cobra class 26 and not have to worry about paying for shipping..

Im not certain I will but I may convince myself to do it if it is realistically worth the money as a one time purchase.of course if there are cheaper solutions for a cylinder arm that will work for the 14oz wallet or bags im making id like to hear those too.

Is that used Cobra 26 no longer available?  From what you earlier described as wanting to sew, the 3200 may be more machine than you need.  And what do you mean by "... limited to 2 spi..."?  That's the longest stitch that the machine can do, and it's really (probably) a lot longer than you need for your wallets and pouches.  It can certainly do more stitches per inch than 2, without question.  I can't believe you would ever need 2 spi for what you are making.  More likely you'd use 4 max, maybe 6 or 8.

I still think you should search for a good used cylinder arm machine.

[Spicytacoman]

1 minute ago, MtlBiker said:

Is that used Cobra 26 no longer available?  From what you earlier described as wanting to sew, the 3200 may be more machine than you need.  And what do you mean by "... limited to 2 spi..."?  That's the longest stitch that the machine can do, and it's really (probably) a lot longer than you need for your wallets and pouches.  It can certainly do more stitches per inch than 2, without question.  I can't believe you would ever need 2 spi for what you are making.  More likely you'd use 4 max, maybe 6 or 8.

I still think you should search for a good used cylinder arm machine.

Yea apparently he sold the Cobra class 26 like 2 weeks ago and didn't remove the post. 

I have been searching like a mad man on facebook marketplace, offerup, and craigslist for "industrial sewing machines" I don't see many cylinder arm machines I seen one from Yamata but, the guy wants 2k and didn't put the model number so I can't really search if it is something worth the time / effort besides the fact that it's over my comfort level. I will indulge a machine over my budget if it really makes sense but If I don't have to I wont on that account.

I watched a video about the cb3200 and it stated it can only do 2 spi. So I thought it was locked into it.. I certainly don't want to sew that long haha

I'm mostly seeing just flatbeds and old singer models in the used market. A few 206rb-5 for around $1k but no replies just yet.

[MtlBiker]

50 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

Yea apparently he sold the Cobra class 26 like 2 weeks ago and didn't remove the post. 

I have been searching like a mad man on facebook marketplace, offerup, and craigslist for "industrial sewing machines" I don't see many cylinder arm machines I seen one from Yamata but, the guy wants 2k and didn't put the model number so I can't really search if it is something worth the time / effort besides the fact that it's over my comfort level. I will indulge a machine over my budget if it really makes sense but If I don't have to I wont on that account.

I watched a video about the cb3200 and it stated it can only do 2 spi. So I thought it was locked into it.. I certainly don't want to sew that long haha

I'm mostly seeing just flatbeds and old singer models in the used market. A few 206rb-5 for around $1k but no replies just yet.

Yes, 2 spi is the longest stitch length the machine can do, not the shortest.

Surely there's an industrial dealer in Tampa or Orlando, maybe even Lakeland.  Call them.  See if there's a used machine they have.  Give them your name and tell them to keep their eyes open.

The 206RB-5 is a great machine (I love mine!) but for you I really think a good cylinder arm machine with flatbed table attachment would be your best choice.  My own cylinder arm machine came with a table attachment which was really horrendous.  It was wooden and took way too long to attach and adjust.  Removing it was easier but still the whole thing was such a pain that you wouldn't want to do that every day and certainly not several times a day.  I've since bought an after market aluminum flatbed table attachment and it's a piece of cake to attach and remove.  I have no problem changing back and forth every day or even more often.  But luckily I also have the 206 so I rarely have to change... other than scooting my roller chair from one machine to the other.

We're trying to save you money.  Trying to keep you from buying a machine that would not be the most versatile for you, meaning you'd have to change it or buy another machine in the near future.  Be patient, keep searching and for your first machine do try to get a used one, preferably cylinder arm.  If you buy a new machine and it's the wrong machine for you, that would be even more expensive.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Wizcrafts
I bolded the sentence about the longest and shortest stitch lengths on the cb3200.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

I watched a video about the cb3200 and it stated it can only do 2 spi.

@Spicytacoman Can you send me a link to that video, in a private message? I want to hear for myself how it was worded that caused you to misunderstand that the stitch length is fixed, rather than adjustable. I promise you that the Cowboy machines all have adjustable stitch lengths, from very short, to whatever long.

To be 100% accurate, there are some specialized sewing machines that have a fixed stitch length, but none of them are machines we typically use in general leather work, or discuss here.

[Spicytacoman]

27 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

@Spicytacoman Can you send me a link to that video, in a private message? I want to hear for myself how it was worded that caused you to misunderstand that the stitch length is fixed, rather than adjustable. I promise you that the Cowboy machines all have adjustable stitch lengths, from very short, to whatever long.

To be 100% accurate, there are some specialized sewing machines that have a fixed stitch length, but none of them are machines we typically use in general leather work, or discuss here.

I surely can! 

[Burkhardt]

1 minute ago, Spicytacoman said:

I surely can! 

Be patient and get a cylinder arm, you'll be happier in the end.

[Wizcrafts]

I watched and listened to the video that confused our O.P. It was being narrated by a text to speech converter bot and a poor one at that. The specs are all wrong. I hope nobody else finds it, so I am NOT linking to it here. The entire video was produced as clickbait.

[Spicytacoman]

I just spoke with a guy that repairs industrial machines and he has a bunch. He has a consew 227 he said he will sell for $800.

Considering the max thickness of my work is about 14/15 oz (4 to 5 oz 3 stacked) would you say that would be capable? I think it only goes to #138 thread which should be fine considering the overall size of the items im making should have to hold much weight

[AlZilla]

I don't know anything about that particular machine but I do wonder if it includes a table/motor and if it's the model with reverse. Hopefully this one will work out for you!

[Spicytacoman]

28 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

I don't know anything about that particular machine but I do wonder if it includes a table/motor and if it's the model with reverse. Hopefully this one will work out for you!

Yea table and motor included. It doesn't have reverse though.. :/

Im  going to end up buying that 206rb5 on Thursday if I can't figure out what cylinder arm to buy lol. And now I feel like I'm going to regret it.

[AlZilla]

3 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

Yea table and motor included. It doesn't have reverse though.. :/

I'm  going to end up buying that 206rb5 on Thursday if I can't figure out what cylinder arm to buy lol. And now I feel like I'm going to regret it.

 I bet the 277 has a clutch motor. If the 206 works for everything you're currently doing and you're right about lower pricing meaning you sell more product, then you'll have a revenue stream and options.  Make the 206 pay for a cylinder arm.

[Spicytacoman]

So it has been settled. 206rb5 with servo motor, guy used it to make a set of couch cushions as he is a wood worker and didnt want to get into the hobby. He only wants $1100.

I considered the consew 227rb2 but this guy wanted $1450, he is the second owner and bought it from another shop before putting it in his automotive shop. That alone made me uncomfortable  plus it was more expensive.

 

So I think the 206rb5 is coming home with me tomorrow morning

[Spicytacoman]

@Wizcrafts @AlZilla @MtlBiker Heya! Just wanted to inform you all I went to get the machine and everything was working fantastic and super excited!

Dismantled the head from the table for transport, when I got back home and reinstalled it, the belt would spin pulley but as soon as the needle goes through the pulley stops and the belt spins.if i pull the pulley back to release the needle, thr belt will pull the pulley again until the needle goes through then the belt spins without spinning the pulley..

 

It couldn't have been something major it was working an 4 hours ago before transport. 

Any ideas what I could've moved or done?