Kevlar thread

[webphut]

Hello all,

I am new and this is my first post. I have been reading the forums for about a week or so and I like so far what I have read. Anyways...

I am going to start learning how to sew leather. I did spend about 2 hours hand stitching , but after two hours, I was just so ready to quit. I am buying a  used sailrite leatherwork sewing machine on Saturday mornng. For my first project I will be attempting to make a welding apron. It will be 3 to 4 oz suede with crossback leather straps. I plan to have two chest pockets and thats probably about it until I get more comfortable with sewing leather. I planned to use kevlar thread to sew the apron together with because of the sparks from grinding and welding. As for the kevlar, How do I end the threads  after I cut away from the sewing machine? Do I just re thread it back into the existing holes where the thread has previously gone? I know that usually melting the thread ends is the goto standard, but kevlar does not exactly melt, which is why I chose to use it on a welding apron. Should i just use the regular nylon or polyester thread? Also, I am getting the vibe from what I have read thus far tex90 or thread size 92 is the norm for these type of projects. 

I look forward to reading the repsonces. Thank you for your time.

 

[TomE]

Welcome.  I don't have experience with Kevlar thread but learned a fair amount by searching the forums.  From what I read, I'd be reluctant to run abrasive Kevlar thread through my machine and also deal with the tensioning issues unless it's absolutely needed.  I imagine most of the stitching will be along edges and the back of the apron, so not directly in the line of fire.(?)  Not sure what type of leather you're using but #92 thread seems a bit small to me.  I recently repaired a farrier's apron (chaps) made of 5-6 oz chrome tanned leather and used #138 nylon thread that was a good match with existing.  The thighs are covered with reinforcing patches of 6oz secured with 2 lines of stitching.  Double stitched might be a useful failsafe for a welding apron.      

[kgg]

1 hour ago, webphut said:

I am buying a  used sailrite leatherwork sewing machine on Saturday mornng.

The Sailrite Leatherwork from a thread size will be limited to V92 thread and without modifications the max sewing thickness will be limited to something less then 1/4". Their spec from their site "You can use thread up to V-92 (Tex 90) and needles up to #22 with this machine, although we recommend V-92 Polyester and #20 DI Leather Needles for most applications. " Note that V92 bonded polyester thread is a thinner and softer then V92 bonded nylon.

A couple of points about this machine:

i) This is a walking foot machine not a compound feed machine. It is classed as a heavy duty not a industrial sewing machine. My opinion is that it is a notch up from a domestic sewing machine.

ii) the Leatherwork is just a portable walking foot Sailrite LS model painted green and placed in nice short table with a good servo motor.

iii) be aware with the portable walking foot machines as the thickness of the material increases like across multi layers the stitch length decreases. On my Sailrite LSZ clone, which is setup for binding, I did manage to get the height clearance under the outer and inner presser feet up to 10mm (touch over 3/8") with a few fancy words of encouragement while making adjustments. Before it was under 1/4 " (6.35mm). The original stitches were 8.5 on a a touch over 1/4" (7mm) thickness of material. With the adjustments I made to the machine it gets 5 on 7mm thick material and on a normal couple layers of cotton fabric I can get it down to 3.5 stitches per inch.

ii) the original intent of the portable walking foot machines was to sew sail fabric.

iii) Sailrite customer service has a good reputation.

If you plan on getting into sewing leather or heavier fabric there are better options both in the new and used machines.

Kevlar thread is going to be hard on the guides and tensioning parts as it is quite abrasive. You may even have to go down to size V69 thread to get it to sew properly in the Leatherworker.

1 hour ago, webphut said:

Also, I am getting the vibe from what I have read thus far tex90 or thread size 92 is the norm for these type of projects. 

Personally I would use size V138 or V207 for durability and strength particularly for pockets that you are going to be tugging on a lot. Size V69 thread has a breaking strength of 11 lbs, V92 is 14.5 lbs, V138 is 22 lbs and V207 is 32 lbs.

How much are they asking for the Sailrite Leatherwork???  Any photo's???

kgg

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by kgg

[webphut]

Ok, that is golden information. Thank you. I will pass on the Sailrite leatherwork then. Sounds like I need to keep looking for a industrial walking foot sewing machine or one with compound feed. 
Im glad I got some input and I can still pass on the sewing machine. Probably saved me a few hundred dollars or maybe even a grand. Ok thank you.

[Tugadude]

Personally I urge you to reconsider stopping hand stitching after 2 hours.  It is a skill, a skill which takes time to develop, but when you acquire it, you will find that it is manageable.  I only hand stitch, mainly because I am a hobbyist and don't feel the need to purchase a machine.  I also don't care for some of the product I see which is machine sewn.  I said some, not all, so please don't think I'm saying I'm against using a machine.  It just isn't for me.  

With time and effort, I can now stitch pretty fast, fast enough for me anyway.  And I enjoy it.  Much of the pleasure I derive from the craft is the stitching itself. 

If you want a machine, by all means go for it, but please give hand stitching more time.  I think it will be worth it.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tugadude

[webphut]

26 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Personally I urge you to reconsider stopping hand stitching after 2 hours.  It is a skill, a skill which takes time to develop, but when you acquire it, you will find that it is manageable.  I only hand stitch, mainly because I am a hobbyist and don't feel the need to purchase a machine.  I also don't care for some of the product I see which is machine sewn.  I said some, not all, so please don't think I'm saying I'm against using a machine.  It just isn't for me.  

With time and effort, I can now stitch pretty fast, fast enough for me anyway.  And I enjoy it.  Much of the pleasure I derive from the craft is the stitching itself. 

If you want a machine, by all means go for it, but please give hand stitching more time.  I think it will be worth it.

Like you, I actually like the actual stitching part of hand stitching. That was actually what got me into it. I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

[Burkhardt]

5 minutes ago, webphut said:

Like you, I actually like the actual stitching part of hand stitching. That was actually what got me into it. I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

You can get a set of cheap stitching chisels off of Ebay or Amazon for 10.00 for a set of 4. 4mm is pretty universal size.

[kgg]

12 minutes ago, webphut said:

I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

A thought maybe using a punch press / drill press where you can install various chisels to punch the holes with less effort.

kgg

[fredk]

26 minutes ago, webphut said:

Like you, I actually like the actual stitching part of hand stitching. That was actually what got me into it. I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

These;

really speed up the hole punching

[fredk]

Tandy does an adapter set for their press to use their multiple change stitching holes punches

these punches;

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/diamond-hole-chisel-set

this press

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/tandypro-r-hand-press?_pos=5&_sid=8ee07cb9c&_ss=r

or

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/craftool-hand-press?_pos=1&_sid=8ee07cb9c&_ss=r

this adapter

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/press-die-for-hand-press-diamond-chisel?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=c6c0b3465&pr_rec_pid=6614473965703&pr_ref_pid=6614474064007&pr_seq=uniform

[Tejas]

Instead of Kevlar thread, you could use PTFE thread which is heat resistant to about 500° F. As for locking the stitches, At the end of the run, leave several inches of thread. Tug the thread on the under-side and pull the top-thread through. Tie off the two threads with a sheet bend or surgeon's knot. A square knot can be used, but a sheet bend or a surgeon's knot is more secure.

PTFE thread is quite slippery. A more secure method would be to leave even longer threads but do not pull through. Thread a needle on each and sew several stitches back through the same holes in the seam, essentially the same as a manual saddle-stitch. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tejas

[Tugadude]

10 hours ago, webphut said:

Like you, I actually like the actual stitching part of hand stitching. That was actually what got me into it. I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

I suggest, if you haven't checked his channel out, go to YouTube and watch some of Nigel Armitage's videos.  He reviews and demonstrates various pricking irons and stitching chisels.  Those tools have really taken off in recent years and new and better ones seem to come out daily.  They've made a huge difference in the speed at which I can stitch.  Here's his thoughts on a popular set.  But you can get started with cheaper chisels and decide if they're for you.

Also, you might find this helpful:

 

[Klara]

10 hours ago, webphut said:

... I think really what I need, to keep me interested in hand stitching, is a faster way to punch all the holes for the thread.

I'd suggest getting a copy of Al Stohlmam's book The Art of Handsewing Leather. He marks the holes with a wheel and uses an awl for making them. The technique needs a lot of practice (unless you have at least three hands) and a stitching pony or variation thereof, but I find it fast enough and a lot more fun than fighting with a sewing machine. 

[webphut]

LOL, WOW...Thank you all for the input. I apprciate you taking your time to respond to me. You have definitely encouraged me to keep on with the hand stitching. 

[fredk]

There are times only hand-stitching will be needed and there are times only sewing machine stitching will be needed. 

Knowing when to use either and being able to do either is part of the learning of leathercrafting

[webphut]

As for a sewing machine that has the features posted above that can drive a 138 thread with the appropriate needle to steer said thread are slim to none. I also been using https://theluckyneedle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Sewing-Machine-Buyers-Guide-2021.pdf  to help me look for a sewing machine too. I have found a couple, but I was hoping to find something with a lower price. Many of the machines are close if not the same as msrp. I think I need to just take it slow until one pops up.

 

 

[kgg]

49 minutes ago, webphut said:

I have found a couple, but I was hoping to find something with a lower price. Many of the machines are close if not the same as msrp. I think I need to just take it slow until one pops up.

There are a lot of good used machines that come to market.

The first thing to do is set a realistic dollar value that you want / able to spend. Then decide on:

i) what items you would probably want to sew.

ii) what size of thread you want / need to sew those items.

iii) what style of machine is best suited to your projects, flatbed or cylinder bed. For someone starting out I would recommend a cylinder bed with a flat top attachment.

iv) buy a brand name if your budget allows.

If and when you come across a machine and are unsure whether will suite your purpose just ask. I'm sure someone here already owns one.

kgg

[webphut]

56 minutes ago, kgg said:

There are a lot of good used machines that come to market.

The first thing to do is set a realistic dollar value that you want / able to spend. Then decide on:

i) what items you would probably want to sew.

ii) what size of thread you want / need to sew those items.

iii) what style of machine is best suited to your projects, flatbed or cylinder bed. For someone starting out I would recommend a cylinder bed with a flat top attachment.

iv) buy a brand name if your budget allows.

If and when you come across a machine and are unsure whether will suite your purpose just ask. I'm sure someone here already owns one.

kgg

i) what items you would probably want to sew.

-A leather welding apron followed up with patching over the holes in my welding gloves for starters. I can fantsize about making all kinds of leather stuff. 

ii) what size of thread you want / need to sew those items.

-This is a question I wish I had known to ask myself way before I ventured down the path of leather sewing all together. Right now I have  kevlar thread in size 346. WOW right! Now I know. When I bought this, I had no idea of needle sizes and weather or not a machine could hold a given needle size. I just looked at the thread next to a couple pieces of 1" leather straps ontop of the 3 oz. suede I planned on using for my apron and thought to myself that it looked awesome.  That was what I started hand stitching with. Now though, hindsight is 20/20 right, thread size 138 or maybe 207.

iii) what style of machine is best suited to your projects, flatbed or cylinder bed. For someone starting out I would recommend a cylinder bed with a flat top attachment.

-All the videos I have watched on youtube makes me lean towards a flatbed, but my gut says cylinder arm. I cant get out of my head that it is only a matter of time before my wife wants me to replicate a louis vitton purse for her or I think I want to make me a leather backpack. 

iv) buy a brand name if your budget allows.

I would love to find a used machine for around $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 on one of the local classiifeds. I been looking for a few weeks now and they are pretty expensive for being used. I am a little surprised at what the sellers are asking. some are asking the same as new price. As far a name brand goes, if I buy a new machine which is stillan option, I may be buying one of the following: Cobra20, Cobra 26, the techsew 2750 or the techsew 1660.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, webphut said:

I am a little surprised at what the sellers are asking. some are asking the same as new price.

I prices for machines during the lockdown went crazy but I am seeing lately prices for used machines dropping in Ontario, Canada. The brand names like Juki, Pfaff, Alder, Singer are still relatively higher then the used clone machines. I would still recommend a cylinder arm with a flat top attachment as you can use it to do both flat or round items. So it gives you a bit of flexibility.

1 hour ago, webphut said:

patching over the holes in my welding gloves for starters.

Whether you go with a flatbed or cylinder bed patching over those holes in your gloves, depending where the holes are located, would probably be more suited to a patcher. Think of the Singer 29K-71 or 72 or a clone patcher machine.

kgg

[webphut]

LOL, I was just joking when I mentioned my welding gloves. Im going to stop posting on thread now. I dont want to take up too much of peoples time and them real long thread get kind of menotinous. I have any other questions, I will start a new thread folk. Once again thank you for your input and I will keep on going with my hand stitching too. Actually was looking at them presses last night in fact on a few different sites.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by webphut
too long