Consew 206rb5 Backstich Problem

[GGerm]

Ok, so I started sewing leather over a year ago. bought a Consew 206rb5 and things progressed slowly. Finally got to a point where things were second nature and going well. So I tried using 207 thread and I think it caused a problem. Now no matter what thread I use it immediately breaks on backstitch. Also the thread comes out of the bottom tension plate from time to time. I hadn't had any of these issues before. I went through the machine changed the needle, even tried a larger one size 22 for T90 thread. Checked the timing, hook looks like it right where it should be. Needle looks good not touching the hook, center of feed dog, etc. no rough spots on the hook.], nice and smooth. Does anyone have any ideas of what to check next or anyone experience this?

[kgg]

3 hours ago, GGerm said:

even tried a larger one size 22 for T90 thread

3 hours ago, GGerm said:

So I tried using 207 thread and I think it caused a problem.

Some questions.

What needle system are you using 135 x 16 for leather or 135x 17 for fabric?

What size of needle did you try to use with V207?

Is the thread on top the same size as what is in the bobbin?

Are you holding the threads for the first few stitches?

How thick is the material / leather you are trying to sew?

3 hours ago, GGerm said:

Also the thread comes out of the bottom tension plate from time to time.

This to me sounds like the thread isn't seated down as far as it should be between the tension disc and or the tension on those discs is to light.

3 hours ago, GGerm said:

Now no matter what thread I use it immediately breaks on backstitch.

My first simple guess is the needle isn't installed correctly so the long grooves are on the left and the scarf on the right. Threading is through the needle eye from left to right.

My second guess which probably occurred when you tried V207 is the timing is off; you have needle strikes to the hook or needle plate so the thread is catches and breaks

My third guess is the forward and reverse stitch are grossly mis-matched. Check by putting a plain piece of heavy paper under the foot and hand-wheel the machines for a couple of inches with no thread in the needle and then put the machine in reverse. The needle should go through the forward holes exactly.

A few photo's of your thread path from the spool of thread to the needle may help solve your problem.

kgg

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by kgg

[GGerm]

Thanks for the extraordinary detailed response and the time it took to respond.

I am using a 135 X17 needle. When I tried the 207 thread I used a 24 needle. I was using the 135 X 17 because a friend asked me to do a motorcycle seat and the leather was soft. So now the breaking occurs no matter what I am sewing and no matter what thread size I am using when going in reverse. I know I have the needle in correct, groove on the left and feeding the needle from the left.

I did check the needle timing to see if there were any strikes and it seems ok. I am going to look at the feed timing issue you mention. That makes a lot of sense. I just need to figure out how to check and adjust that. IT makes sense that the fabric is pulling the needle into the hook. All of the testing and checking I have done is without fabric, just looking at the needle and the hook clearance. But If the fabric is pulling the needle I won't see it without fabric in it.

I mentioned the tension as part of the issue because sometimes the thread jumps out of the bottom tension disk and or the tension suddenly gets tighter. But I'll go with your feed timing suggestion next and see where that goes. Thanks again and I'll let you know what I find when I get home from work tomorrow.

 

[Burkhardt]

Using a 135x17 needle on the softer leather will magnify your problem because it doesn't even on soft leather cut it clean as it pierces through it. It will push the leather down through the needle plate vs cutting through it clean like a 16 would.

[1hp]

on my RB5, using a 135x16 size 25 for 207 thread. working well on 1/4" hard veg. Organ brand RTW.

[kgg]

4 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

Using a 135x17 needle on the softer leather will magnify your problem

I agree. The fabric needle 135x 17 will punch a hole but has a tendency to leave the hole rough around the edges of the needle plate side of the hole. If the presser foot tension wasn't just right it probably knocked the machine off it's timing particularly with the max size of thread for that machine. It can be a balancing act when to use a 135x17 needle on leather. My rule would be to use a 135x16 needle with leather but if there is fabric involved on the needle plate side of the seam I might give a 135 x17 needle a try if I didn't want the fibers of the fabric to be cut. A 135x17 needle is designed to push apart the fibers rather then cut through them.  

From what you are saying I would check and make sure that all the bolts are tight as one may have come loose causing something to slip. Then recheck and reset the machines timing.

kgg

[CowboyBob]

11 hours ago, kgg said:

Also the thread comes out of the bottom tension plate from time to time.

Sounds like you not pulling the thread past the oval hole look @ this diagram.

111wthreadinggg.pdf

[GGerm]

Hi and thanks for the comments,

Just wanted to give you feedback on what I learned. Thanks to KBB for telling me that it wasn't a tension issue which made me look further and this is what I found. And so the comments from Cowboy Bob was correct, but due to a user error.

1. I had put the tensioner on backwards after I had a spring jam, which reversed the location of the clip that hold the thread in the tensioner causing it not to be clipped into the tensioner at all.

2.  When I put in the large 207 thread it must of pulled the hook closer to the needle so the hook was touching the needle. So I adjusted the hook distance.

3. The forward and reverse stich length needed adjustment and I got it as close a match as I could.

4. I adjusted the feet timing.

Now the machine is working fine but I do still have a minor tension issue in reverse as the reverse stich brings the top thread too far down, but its ok forward?

What I learned is the machine comes with tools for a reason. I was hesitant to start adjusting things but you really need to become familiar with the machine and all the adjustments if you expect it to work well. Thanks to everyone for comments.

 

[CowboyBob]

49 minutes ago, GGerm said:

Hi and thanks for the comments,

Just wanted to give you feedback on what I learned. Thanks to KBB for telling me that it wasn't a tension issue which made me look further and this is what I found. And so the comments from Cowboy Bob was correct, but due to a user error.

1. I had put the tensioner on backwards after I had a spring jam, which reversed the location of the clip that hold the thread in the tensioner causing it not to be clipped into the tensioner at all.

2.  When I put in the large 207 thread it must of pulled the hook closer to the needle so the hook was touching the needle. So I adjusted the hook distance.

3. The forward and reverse stich length needed adjustment and I got it as close a match as I could.

4. I adjusted the feet timing.

Now the machine is working fine but I do still have a minor tension issue in reverse as the reverse stich brings the top thread too far down, but its ok forward?

What I learned is the machine comes with tools for a reason. I was hesitant to start adjusting things but you really need to become familiar with the machine and all the adjustments if you expect it to work well. Thanks to everyone for comments.

 

I'm glad to hear you got it fixed.Thanks for letting us know you found the problem,so many times people don't come back & post the fix.

Edited June 1, 2023 by CowboyBob