Help to identify a vintage machine please

[PaulineSul]

Good Evening.

Does anyone know what this machine is?

My father-in-law was a cobbler and I have inherited a whole shop full of items and machines, most of which I have no idea what they are . I am slowly working my way through a stockpile of machines and items.

I have tried reverse google search with no luck 

Thank you in advance 

[MtlBiker]

I hope someone will be able to help you but your darn photo is so small it's really hard to tell what we're looking at.

[Constabulary]

IIRC this is an outsole stitcher probably made by GRITZNER in Germany.

EDIT:

I knew I have seen it here before:

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/71106-gritzner-sole-stitcher/

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Constabulary

[PaulineSul]

@MtlBikerSorry the image is small, every time I try to upload it says over the size limit for uploads lol

@Constabulary thank you so much, the machine is so old even google couldn't tell me what it was, remarkably it still appears to be operational, your time is much appreciated.

I have a lot of singer machines,  they are slightly easier to identify with plaques with a number on, although I have no idea what they stitch ie leather boots etc.

I have a couple of pre war treadle machines, one i think puts rivets in? I will be posting more random pictures over the weekend.

Thank you for replying and helping me to try and save the machines.

 

 

 

[AlZilla]

9 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

@MtlBikerSorry the image is small, every time I try to upload it says over the size limit for uploads lol

@Constabulary thank you so much, the machine is so old even google couldn't tell me what it was, remarkably it still appears to be operational, your time is much appreciated.

I have a lot of singer machines,  they are slightly easier to identify with plaques with a number on, although I have no idea what they stitch ie leather boots etc.

I have a couple of pre war treadle machines, one i think puts rivets in? I will be posting more random pictures over the weekend.

Thank you for replying and helping me to try and save the machines.

 

 

 

For your Singers, these 2 links may help you sort out your old machines and their original purpose:

https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/model-list/index.html

https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/singer-sewing-machines-for-manufacturing-purposes.html

 

[PaulineSul]

@AlZillaThank you, this truly is a wonderful group with such helpful people.

I have been at a total loss looking at so many machines, shoe making products, die cut metal things, punches, vintage hand tools a rack full of leather that I don't even know how to tell what its for, it has been overwhelming, I couldn't just dispose of them, I am now starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, thank you all!

[dikman]

Sounds like a leatherworker's Aladdin's Cave! You'll have lots of us drooling.

[Constabulary]

12 hours ago, PaulineSul said:

I have a lot of singer machines,  they are slightly easier to identify with plaques with a number on, although I have no idea what they stitch ie leather boots etc.

 and we all would like to see them 

Maybe you can post some good pictures of what you have.

[PaulineSul]

I will definitely take some images and compress them so I can share them.

I will also need the expertise of you lovely leather workers to figure out what leather I have. I have some smaller pieces that are perforated, it seems to have a small V cut out where the central point is, was it for shoe making I wonder? where is the best place to sell leather as I have rolls of the stuff lol  

Thank you for your support in my journey of discovery into the cobbler world.

[fredk]

56 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

I will also need the expertise of you lovely leather workers to figure out what leather I have. I have some smaller pieces that are perforated, 

Perforated leather is a favourite for car seats and steering wheel covers but in your case it was most likely for shoe insoles

57 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

where is the best place to sell leather as I have rolls of the stuff lol  

tbh, you can get really decent prices for small off-cuts, in bundles especially, on ebay But be ware that between ebay & paypal fees you loose about 15 to 20% of your sold price

[PaulineSul]

@fredk thank you.

Is there a gauge or chart for leather as Dad has lots of different thicknesses and its on rolls, maybe 3 meters wide. I can tell that they are different grades but I am absolutely clueless lol  other than the colour. 

The snake skins are also a minefield 

 

[fredk]

21 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

The snake skins are also a minefield 

In more ways than one. You need to determine if they are really snake skin or cow/goat skin impressed and coloured. Its hard to sell on real snake skin in the UK as most snakes come under UK endangered species lists and the authorities just lump them all in together. You can get into real trouble over them - but sell on the sly to other leather crafters and no one is the wiser.

I'd suggest, for the other hides, if there are that many, contact Le Prevo in Newcastle. Under the previous owner Stu they used to buy in odd leathers from such sources as yourself. They might still do, or sell them on your behalf

[PaulineSul]

Oh I never knew about the snake skins, they are very old, probably from the 60's and 70's but I don't want to fall foul of the authorities. Are there discrete selling places to enable people to purchase said skins rather than bin them?

I know which ones are definitely snake skin as they are the shape of a snake. 

I will contact Le Prevo and ask the question

Once again, Thank you 

[fredk]

29 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

Oh I never knew about the snake skins, they are very old, probably from the 60's and 70's but I don't want to fall foul of the authorities. Are there discrete selling places to enable people to purchase said skins rather than bin them?

I know which ones are definitely snake skin as they are the shape of a snake. 

1. on here,   . There are quite a few UK leather crafters on here who might buy them. The Ozzies and Cranks, errr, the Yanks can get new snake skins far easier than we can

2. on ebay, as 'antique reptile skins' but not as snake because ebay UK/Europe will ban their sale. I've even seen snake skin listed as fish skin. I've never seen a 4ft long diamond-back 'fish' yet

3. its more than just the shape, its the feel, the scales, the thinness which can tell you if its real snake. But you're probably correct. Snake skin shoes were top-notch and popular in the 1960s - 1970s but dropped out of fashion in the mid-1980s 

be ware of the latest changes in the laws to do with products from exotic species. More have been recently added. Some we, as leather crafters, might not come across, such as ivory from Walrus or Killer Whales, but hides from other animals have been added

 

PS. oh, just remembered, Le Prevo also sells on old leather crafting machines* so talk to them about those as well - but NOT before letting us see them !

* they have or recently had a stainless steel kitchen sink & fittings for sale !

Edited June 10, 2023 by fredk

[PaulineSul]

You are a wonderful font of knowledge, thank you.

I will get them together and take some images and then post them on here to gauge interest. (I will measure the thickness too)

Oh Dad had some amazing snakeskin shoes, he made himself a couple of pairs and I have them in lovely wooden boxes as a memory of him.  

If only I knew how to make leather goods I would be set up, I have everything a leather worker could ever need, Dad kept everything as he saw a use for it all.

 

 

[fredk]

2 hours ago, PaulineSul said:

If only I knew how to make leather goods I would be set up, I have everything a leather worker could ever need, 

Why not give it a go! as you say you're all set up. You don't have to make shoes. A small shoulder bag, belt things like that. And you've joined this forum. If you have time browse the 'How do I . . . ? ' section. There are plenty of other crafters who will help you develop your skills. We are usually very kind on early efforts. 

'How do I do that?' 363 pages. I'm still working through them several years on! I work from both ends, oldest & most recent

https://leatherworker.net/forum/forum/36-how-do-i-do-that/

2 hours ago, PaulineSul said:

Oh Dad had some amazing snakeskin shoes, he made himself a couple of pairs and I have them in lovely wooden boxes as a memory of him.  

Thats really nice

2 hours ago, PaulineSul said:

I will get them together and take some images and then post them on here to gauge interest. (I will measure the thickness too)

you can buy a basic leather thickness gauge for under a tenner on ebay. Be careful, this very same item sells for very many, mucho ££ by other sellers

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224912663552?hash=item345dd6e400:g:6OAAAOSwyq5iRLPy&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4AYF0cZT%2BNEzh%2BlnQFi2fT%2F%2FV7Ps5uGL1qBm1PRca%2FP0cHHkuj6UwdZJjiAQSxrNmrlw3GdjfIAbSnmCgWbJ%2FRTAgWlke58M0lVtkc6WBONUOnTWjzrl602lmoH0UrS5YnZsMWJhFMmjW4LOOrotcsyhEnM77rxi%2B6%2BxO1ntIgFWNUxqduwTGgGj0EvadezqjF%2BLQYSXAa5ninU8hqBdR3dk%2BNcGELKnv%2F9PpepyEkD9tYsW82NhMDKcyhNLQheonOLyi%2FDig7o8lANhkFkfQ3u61nF0hpbb03t7%2Bi4ob9Hq|tkp%3ABk9SR8qtm9qUYg

Currently my orders from China are taking 10 to 15 days to arrive

UK price is about £12. Worth it to me, but to you?

Edited June 10, 2023 by fredk

[PaulineSul]

I will take a look at the gauge. thank you.

I might consider giving something a go 

I think I have just found a crocodile skin! 

I'm going to take pictures of bits and pieces soon 

 

[PaulineSul]

Think this is a shoe press/compressor, has some metal shoe cut things with it?

Worth salvaging or scrap? 

Thank you 

[fredk]

Always worth salvaging. Shoe makers' and cobblers' machines are scarce enough. Someone somewhere will want it and can make use of it

About 6 years ago an old shoemaker/cobbler in a town near me died and his family cleared out his old shop. Machines going back to the 1850s / 1860s were sledgehammered and sent for land-fill. No attempt was made to sell them. afair some of the old machines were very valuable, enough to pay off a mortgage. You never know just what you have there in value

[PaulineSul]

Oh no that is such a shame, why would they destroy the history of the items. I tried to connect with so many people and eventually one lovely chap who repaired singer machines recommended this group.

I have just found some original instruction manuals and shared front covers on here, they are clearly very old and must be hard to come by so they may help someone and I am happy to provide copies.

Thanks to knowledge learned from this group I have identified a small hand operated wrought iron rivet machine, its now cleaned, oiled and fully operational and also a skiver machine which I have taken apart cleaned and it works like a dream. My hands and nails are ruined but I have saved two machines and hopefully Dad is smiling down on me. Now its just trying to find them new homes and about another 40 machines to go.......some will be beyond my abilities but I have enjoyed working with the smaller less complicated ones.

Do you know where the best place is to advertise the big machines? 

[fredk]

26 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

Do you know where the best place is to advertise the big machines? 

ebay or Gumtree, or Le Prevo if they'll take them

I'd advise NOT to take them to any auction house. They might be ok with furniture or porcelain but when it comes to specialist machinery they haven't a baldy and will bluff it out and, sad to say, in England there is still a lot of misogyny and they'll try to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about

[PaulineSul]

Thank you @fredk

I have emailed Le Prevo about the leather as you suggested, I will ask about the machines too. Some of them are so old that people just have no clue and try to blag it. One chap said he would give me a drink and take the stuff away, I knew that wasn't right and having spoken to the Singer machine repair chap he confirmed my suspicions.  I also think he would of just binned anything that wasn't worth much.

It's important to me that the items that can be saved are, and those that have died a death are the only ones scrapped.

 

[fredk]

4 minutes ago, PaulineSul said:

It's important to me that the items that can be saved are, and those that have died a death are the only ones scrapped.

Please don't even scrap those. They might be useful as organ donors for other machines. The manufacturers tended to use their own screw threads and getting replacements to service other machines is near impossible. If you were to trawl (not troll,) this forum you'll come across a great many requests such as 'Where can I get a plate/screw/bolt/ . . . for a Singer 29K or a xxx . . . .?'

I and my son started with one 1930 Austin 7 Ulster. We now have a large shed full of spare wheels, engines, seats, chassis. We bought spare parts whenever and wherever we could. We have helped a few fellow club members with spare parts. All these old parts are organs for our old cars to keep them on the road. Just like your old 'dead' machines

[PaulineSul]

That is very true @fredk when I think about it, I bet its impossible to get parts. 

I will bear this in mind and offer any machines that aren't working for spares or repairs.

Dad saw a use for everything, I think that's why there is so much!

[fredk]

Slightly off topic; I started my personal campaign to get people to stop throwing away old items because they were 'old' and the people didn't bother to find out what they had back about 1977. Back then a friend and I collected old photography items, One day we spotted a brass plate in an antique shop window. the plaque had come off a certain camera. We asked the store owner if he had the camera. 'No. I burnt it. The wood was no good and it was too old'

We showed him a recent auction report in a magazine we had just purchased in which a similar camera had been sold. His plaque was off a Louis Daguerre camera of 1829 and was numbered 7. The one in the auction was of 1830, numbered 15 and the camera was described as in very poor condition. It had sold for £12,000. And this man had burnt his. He had burnt money. At that time my sister had bought a very nice modern semi for under £10,000, those houses sell for £250, 000 plus today