Rotary Hole Punch Rusted

[frontboot]

I bought an old WM Johnson rotary hole punch recently. A few of the tubes are broken and rusted too snugly in place for me to remove them. I have had the rotary part more or less soaking in PB Blaster for a couple of days, but to no avail. Any suggestions?

[chuck123wapati]

apply some heat with a soldering torch to the tubes only then shoot em again with the pb blaster. the heat will expand the tubes and break the rust. you may need to do it a couple of times.

[frontboot]

I have managed to break them off flush. I have a broken screw extractor, but I want to make sure that the rust in the threads has broken loose/absorbed penetrating oil before I apply force. I'm afraid of stripping out the center of the tubes before they break loose

[bruce johnson]

As much as I’m a fan of PB Blaster, I’ve found a 50:50 mix of acetone and Automatic transmission fluid works when PB Blaster doesn’t. Saw the comparison chart a few months ago and it was higher than my tried and true PBB. 

[frontboot]

I’ve seen that suggested on other forums but  not for leather tools specifically. Thanks for the info!

[AlZilla]

An overnighter in Evaporust might help.

[fredk]

I used to use diesel fuel diluted with paraffin oil. Used hot, and the part heated up with a blow lamp and dipped into the mix and left to soak. Repeated as necessary. Being careful never to get to the paraffin oil flash point

[frontboot]

My cheap vintage eBay hole punchers are about to cost me as much as a good new set. I tried using my screw extractor today after having soaked the whole thing over the weekend in ATF/acetone. After some aggressive words and actions, one of the tubes popped out revealing the fact the tubes and cylinder are not threaded- the tubes have tapered ends that fit into corresponding holes in the cylinder.  Anyone know where I could buy replacements? I have already tried Weaver/Bruce Johnson/Springfield/eBay/Amazon/Buckle Guy/Frog Jelly.

[Littlef]

On 8/24/2023 at 4:25 PM, bruce johnson said:

As much as I’m a fan of PB Blaster, I’ve found a 50:50 mix of acetone and Automatic transmission fluid works when PB Blaster doesn’t. Saw the comparison chart a few months ago and it was higher than my tried and true PBB. 

+1 ATF fluid and acetone is my go to for frozen parts.    I normally soak it for a day or two.  Then, I tap the parts with a small ball peen hammer.  Then, I hit it with heat.  Then, I take a can of compressed air, turn it upside down, and freeze it with the freon from the can.  (expansion and contraction.)   Then, I try to turn it.  If it doesn't turn, it goes back in the bath, and I try it again the next day. 

[frontboot]

15 minutes ago, Littlef said:

+1 ATF fluid and acetone is my go to for frozen parts.    I normally soak it for a day or two.  Then, I tap the parts with a small ball peen hammer.  Then, I hit it with heat.  Then, I take a can of compressed air, turn it upside down, and freeze it with the freon from the can.  (expansion and contraction.)   Then, I try to turn it.  If it doesn't turn, it goes back in the bath, and I try it again the next day. 

I managed to get them unstuck, but now I'm trying to figure out where to buy replacement tubes that aren't threaded. This is what I get for trying to go cheap.

 

[chuck123wapati]

24 minutes ago, frontboot said:

I managed to get them unstuck, but now I'm trying to figure out where to buy replacement tubes that aren't threaded. This is what I get for trying to go cheap.

 

I think your S.O.L. my friend. 

[Littlef]

1 hour ago, frontboot said:

I managed to get them unstuck, but now I'm trying to figure out where to buy replacement tubes that aren't threaded. This is what I get for trying to go cheap.

 

Ooo, yea, finding press in tubes won't be easy.  In fact those probably were not designed to be replaced, which is why it took so much effort to get them out.

[optimusprimestamp]

It's great that you're working to restore the old WM Johnson rotary hole punch! Dealing with rusted and stuck parts can be challenging, but there are a few additional steps you can take to try and loosen the tubes. First, consider using a penetrating oil like PB Blaster or WD-40 and allowing it to penetrate for a longer period, even up to a week, occasionally tapping the tubes lightly to help the oil work its way in. You could also try a mixture of vinegar and baking soda as a natural rust-removing solution – apply it to the rusted areas, let it sit for a while, and then gently attempt to twist the tubes out. If these methods don't work, you might want to visit the official website of the National Park Service's Conserve O Grams (https://www.nps.gov/museum/publications/conserveogram/cons_toc.html), a resource that provides practical instructions for conserving various types of artifacts. While not directly related to your rotary hole punch, these guidelines offer valuable insights into dealing with rusted and stuck objects and could help you find the right approach. Remember to be patient and use gentle methods to avoid damaging the antique tool during the restoration process.

This website is helpful in checking someone's credential if in case you decided to hire someone who can do this task for you: https://backgroundcheckrepair.org/background-check-connecticut/

[Doc Reaper]

Ya went cheap the first time and ya keep feeding that same cheap habit by spending good money after bad. Now take the busted one and trash it, then go find some decent hole makers (not a rotary) and enjoy life

[fredk]

17 hours ago, frontboot said:

I managed to get them unstuck, but now I'm trying to figure out where to buy replacement tubes that aren't threaded. This is what I get for trying to go cheap.

If you are insistent on doing this; buy a new rotary hole punch of reasonable quality and take the punch tubes out of that and put into the old one

You'll be ending up with a 'Triggers Broom' though

[AlZilla]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:45 PM, frontboot said:

After some aggressive words and actions, one of the tubes popped out revealing the fact the tubes and cylinder are not threaded

I've done that sort of thing a few times. I'd concur, toss it. Consider the cost tuition in your leather crafting education and buy something else.

Or, maybe you just like fixing things, which I understand. It's not always about the cost.

Is that brand something special?

[frontboot]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

If you are insistent on doing this; buy a new rotary hole punch of reasonable quality and take the punch tubes out of that and put into the old one

You'll be ending up with a 'Triggers Broom' though

Brilliant! Unlike my old hole puncher (which is my new paperweight) , that expression needs to be preserved and handed down through the next generations.

[frontboot]

Thanks for all the input, folks. What I thought would be a simple project to fix up an old set of hole punchers turned out to be a lesson in assuming that modern parts would fit an old tool. Looks like I'm the old tool now.

[dikman]

I'm a bit perplexed by the suggestion to use a mix of vinegar and baking soda - vinegar is an acid, baking soda is an alkali so they would neutralise each other when mixed. What would be the point of applying the mix to anything (might as well use water)?

[Northmount]

15 hours ago, dikman said:

I'm a bit perplexed by the suggestion to use a mix of vinegar and baking soda - vinegar is an acid, baking soda is an alkali so they would neutralise each other when mixed. What would be the point of applying the mix to anything (might as well use water)?

Agreed!  I see so many "ideas" posted here and there about the best household cleaner, the best glass cleaner, etc. that say use vinegar and baking soda.  Even for clothes washing!  Would be smarter to use straight vinegar, then neutralize with baking soda after if there is any risk of the vinegar continuing to cause corrosion after it has dried.

I think that because it foams up they think vinegar and baking soda are doing a great job!!

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Northmount said:

Agreed!  I see so many "ideas" posted here and there about the best household cleaner, the best glass cleaner, etc. that say use vinegar and baking soda.  Even for clothes washing!  Would be smarter to use straight vinegar, then neutralize with baking soda after if there is any risk of the vinegar continuing to cause corrosion after it has dried.

I think that because it foams up they think vinegar and baking soda are doing a great job!!

yup straight vinegar is one of the best and cheapest, forget the baking soda. I just finished our storm windows by soaking paper towels in vinegar and sticking them on the glass for about ten minutes then scrubbed with a copper pad. it out did the CLR product 100 times over and far less then half the cost. i used it on the electric switches in my 75 Mgb just threw them in the vinegar for a day and blew them out with air, they work like brand new. Just don't leave it  for a week in your wifes good canner if there is a chip in the enamel lol. we use it in our clothes too.

It has its place in the world.

[TomE]

I think the idea is to add enough baking soda to produce CO2 bubbles without neutralizing the acidic vinegar.  So if you believe in scrubbing bubbles you can still get the benefits of the acid. Not my choice for metal parts.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, TomE said:

I think the idea is to add enough baking soda to produce CO2 bubbles without neutralizing the acidic vinegar.  So if you believe in scrubbing bubbles you can still get the benefits of the acid. Not my choice for metal parts.

i use it all the time on metal and then use it for vinegaroon lol. IMO its one of the best natural products i have ever used for a number of uses. 

[chuck123wapati]

In this case no solvent or fix would have worked the parts were pressed in and probably crimped. 

[TomE]

43 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

In this case no solvent or fix would have worked the parts were pressed in and probably crimped. 

Do you recall when I was trying to rethread a hardened Osborne punch tube and you advised me about annealing, heat treating, and tempering?  Worked great, except the inside of the tube developed scale(?) and tends to clog.  I've tried polishing inside using a thread coated with compound but maybe haven't tried enough.  Bruce Johnson recommended tapping out the punch frame to fix this mismatch of old and new Osborne punch tubes.  This is a spring punch that holds a single tube.  Finally got back to this project and called CSO to ask what size tap I should use.  Their "technician"  replied that I should just send in the frame and tubes.  So I'm waiting to see what they come up with.