Using linen thread for a machine.

[speedybri]

Hello everyone.  

I've been doing leather work for about 25 years and it's mostly been hand sewing.  I'm considering buying a simple machine that can stitch heavy leather.  Sometimes sewing several layers of 10-12oz together. The trick i need to use linen thread.  And I'd like to use a wax pot. Can I literally run a wax pot and linen on any heavier machinre?  I usually use 4 cord.  Iam considering the cowboy outlaw because of its simplicity. But I'm also looking as several 441 machines.   Anyone have any ideas on using 4 cord linen thread and the wax pot?  Also any recommendations on the machines?  

Thanks in advance for any and all help.   I appreciate it. 

Brian Merrick 

[kgg]

10 hours ago, speedybri said:

Sometimes sewing several layers of 10-12oz together.

I will only comment on machines as I am not familiar enough on the linen thread to comment.

a) There are concurrently three one armed bandit machines available:

i) Tippmann Boss ( https://tippmannindustrial.com/tippmann-boss-leather-sewing-machine/ ) at about $1000 USD plus shipping and it can according to the spec handle up to V415 thread and with a max sewing thickness of 3/4".

ii) Cowboy Outlaw ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/cowboy-outlaw.html ) at about $1395 USD plus shipping and it can according to the spec handle up to V346 and possibly V415 thread and with a max sewing thickness of 5/8".

iii) Master Tool Cub ( https://www.weaverleathersupply.com/collections/cub-manual-leather-sewing-machine/products/master-tool-cub-manual-leather-sewing-machine-aluminum ) at about $1999 USD plus shipping and it can according to the spec handle up to V346 thread and with a max sewing thickness of 3/4".

b) There are a lot of class 441 clone machines available between the $3000 and $4000 price range like the Cowboy 4500 (7/8" max sewing thickness with V415), Cobra Class 4 ( 7/8" max sewing thickness with V415) to name a couple. Most clone machines either come with a wax pot or it can be purchased separately.

c) You mentioned are planning on sewing several layer so you would be able to use up to three layers of 10-12 oz leather in the above machines but not four. The thing to remember is 10 to 12 oz leather is going to be in the range of approximately 5/32" to 1/4" in thickness ( https://www.leffler.com.au/leather-thickness-conversion-chart/ ).

As far as recommending a machine choose one that meets your needs and budget from a company that you feel will provide good after sale service and if possible test drive various machines with your items.

kgg

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by kgg

[Wizcrafts]

Sewing thick leather with waxed thread calls for a needle and awl machine. You will find two of the best needle and awl machines here.

I used to have a Union Lockstitch machine and ran Barbour's Irish Linen thread through it, using Lax Wax from Campbell-Randall, or Ceroxylon from Puritan Industries. Sellari's liquid stitching wax is also available for needle and awl machines and is often used in sole stitchers.

[speedybri]

Thank you both for your help.  It's much appreciated.   I'm actually looking for something a little more simple like the first three machines mentioned.   I have a needle ans awl in my shop right now, doesn't belong to me. I was very kindly given it to try, and its just a bit too tome consuming for me I'm afraid.  I just need something more simple. I like the outlaw and weavers cub cause they are not huge.  I dint have a ton of space in my shop right now unfortunately. 

[Wizcrafts]

49 minutes ago, speedybri said:

Thank you both for your help.  It's much appreciated.   I'm actually looking for something a little more simple like the first three machines mentioned.   I have a needle ans awl in my shop right now, doesn't belong to me. I was very kindly given it to try, and its just a bit too tome consuming for me I'm afraid.  I just need something more simple. I like the outlaw and weavers cub cause they are not huge.  I dint have a ton of space in my shop right now unfortunately. 

Ah, so! If you must use a closed eye machine, get one with a lube pot on top. Fill it with liquid silicon (from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and other dealers). Run the top thread through the silicon to lubricate it. This may keep the wax on the thread from clogging the eye of the needle. Also, use a larger needle than is called for (see thread and needle chart). The larger eye will have a better chance of clearing the wax that strips off the thread. But, keep a dauber and a jar of Goof Off handy in case everything clogs up with wax.

[speedybri]

Thank you again for the help.  I very much appreciate it. I'm looking into the weaver cub.  I really like th looks of it and I think I would be better turning the flywheel rather than the back and forth hand crank.  Plus I would think if you wanted to you could take that fly wheel off and put a pulley on and add a motor later on.     Also it looks like it had more room up top to add the wax pot in line with the thread.  

[Burkhardt]

Not knowing your need time wise  for getting or finances but there are times that 441 class machines come up in the 1500.00 to 2000.00 and in the long run money well spent. Buying a used machine someone else paid the shiny new price and after that the used prices hold up really well on resale.

[speedybri]

I would love to get a 441 machine.  If you know of one for sale please let me know. 

[Burkhardt]

55 minutes ago, speedybri said:

I would love to get a 441 machine.  If you know of one for sale please let me know. 

Drop a message to @Teradee, they had a few.

[Wizcrafts]

9 hours ago, speedybri said:

I would love to get a 441 machine.  If you know of one for sale please let me know. 

Have you considered leasing a brand new Cowboy stitcher? They make several models that are based on the Juki TSC-441, but at half the price. I have their CB4500, which has a useful 16.5 inch long arm.

[speedybri]

Thank you both again for the help.   I sent them a message.  I didn't know cowboy leased? 

Brian