Buffing wheels and compounds Help please

[Leather2]

Hi all. I was recently able to pick up a baldor slow speed buffer for sharpening my leather tools, and I am wondering what brands and styles of buffing wheels are best. The arbor is 3/4in an I am thinking of doing six inch wheels. 
How many ply/how thick should the wheels be? Should they be stiff canvas? Yellow? White?

Also, as far as compounds go, I am planning to do two different compounds. What ones should I do? Green and Black? Green and Gray? Also what are some quality brands I can get? 
thank you.

JC

[Ddat]

Can't help on the question of wheels, but regarding what type of compound to get: if you're asking, it doesn't really matter. I sharpen all my wood working, leather, and kitchen tools and just use whatever is closest. I can't tell the difference and I disturb a lot. Get a couple and try them out.

[bladegrinder]

I believe I have the same buffer but 3600 rpm. I use it in knife making and have had it about 30 years. what I use are 1/4" wheels stacked to 1" you can find them at Trugrit abrasives or other knifemaking suppliers. whether you use one or stack them there is considerable time involved getting it balanced on the shaft to run true, you just have to keep adjusting it on the shaft until it runs smooth and there's no vibration. if your going with two compounds I'd go with white and green, green being the finest...and messiest. get a wheel for each compound.

congrats on the buffer, I believe the Baldor with 3/4" shafts are the best out there. and be careful a buffer can be the most dangerous machine in the shop.

Edit...the wheels I use are spiral sewn.

Edited November 5, 2023 by bladegrinder

[TomE]

I agree with @bladegrinder's choices.  I have a 3/4hp Baldor motor with 5/8" shafts and a sewn cotton buffing wheel.  I use green compound for everything. The other side is a deburring wheel.  Has lasted 12 yrs in a machine shed although I'm hearing a bit of bearing noise.  I use it for hoof knives and leather tools. 

[Leather2]

9 hours ago, bladegrinder said:

I believe I have the same buffer but 3600 rpm. I use it in knife making and have had it about 30 years. what I use are 1/4" wheels stacked to 1" you can find them at Trugrit abrasives or other knifemaking suppliers. whether you use one or stack them there is considerable time involved getting it balanced on the shaft to run true, you just have to keep adjusting it on the shaft until it runs smooth and there's no vibration. if your going with two compounds I'd go with white and green, green being the finest...and messiest. get a wheel for each compound.

congrats on the buffer, I believe the Baldor with 3/4" shafts are the best out there. and be careful a buffer can be the most dangerous machine in the shop.

Edit...the wheels I use are spiral sewn.

Thank you, Is there a reason you stack the wheels instead of getting a bigger wheel?

Just now, TomE said:

I agree with @bladegrinder's choices.  I have a 3/4hp Baldor motor with 5/8" shafts and a sewn cotton buffing wheel.  I use green compound for everything. The other side is a deburring wheel.  Has lasted 12 yrs in a machine shed although I'm hearing a bit of bearing noise.  I use it for hoof knives and leather tools. 

How corse is black compound vs green compound??

thanks

[TomE]

3 minutes ago, Leather2 said:

Thank you, Is there a reason you stack the wheels instead of getting a bigger wheel?

How corse is black compound vs green compound??

thanks

Mine is one wheel with the cotton layers sewn together to make a firm edge.  My buffing wheel is 3/4" x 6". Fits the curved blade of a hoof knife.  I don't have experience with black compound.  Green is plenty fine for my blades.  I buy supplies from Farrier Product Distribution or Sharpeningsupplies.com.

[Leather2]

49 minutes ago, TomE said:

Mine is one wheel with the cotton layers sewn together to make a firm edge.  My buffing wheel is 3/4" x 6". Fits the curved blade of a hoof knife.  I don't have experience with black compound.  Green is plenty fine for my blades.  I buy supplies from Farrier Product Distribution or Sharpeningsupplies.com.

Thank you

[bruce johnson]

I'm definitely the wrong guy to ask. I have 5 variable speed grinders and then three VS bench lathes (essentially small bench buffers).  Some of wheel/grit combinations are 1/2 inch on an arbor for my drill press. Everything for the grease based compounds on the grinders are two stacked 1/2' wheels. I use 1" denim wheels for five grits of greaseless compounds. For waxy grease based compounds I use sisal, spiral sewn treated and spiral sewn non treated, and loose wheels. Once I get past the greaseless compounds I use four grease based compounds currently. All my compounds come from Maverick Abrasives now. They have been more consistent and economical for me.

Black compound on sisal is most aggressive and removes grit marks pretty well. Makes a nice transition step up from the 600 grit greaseless.  Next step is green - treated wheels first and then spiral sewn regular wheels to give a nice reflective polish and most people probably quit there. I go to purple compound on a spiral and then a loose wheel and it really brightens up after the green. I use pink on a loose wheel as a final buff or softer materials - the pink is really more of a polish than much abrasive - can use it on wood, plastic, or brass to really make it pop.

For my leather stropping wheels - black and green then purple on a loose wheel

[Leather2]

3 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

I'm definitely the wrong guy to ask. I have 5 variable speed grinders and then three VS bench lathes (essentially small bench buffers).  Some of wheel/grit combinations are 1/2 inch on an arbor for my drill press. Everything for the grease based compounds on the grinders are two stacked 1/2' wheels. I use 1" denim wheels for five grits of greaseless compounds. For waxy grease based compounds I use sisal, spiral sewn treated and spiral sewn non treated, and loose wheels. Once I get past the greaseless compounds I use four grease based compounds currently. All my compounds come from Maverick Abrasives now. They have been more consistent and economical for me.

Black compound on sisal is most aggressive and removes grit marks pretty well. Makes a nice transition step up from the 600 grit greaseless.  Next step is green - treated wheels first and then spiral sewn regular wheels to give a nice reflective polish and most people probably quit there. I go to purple compound on a spiral and then a loose wheel and it really brightens up after the green. I use pink on a loose wheel as a final buff or softer materials - the pink is really more of a polish than much abrasive - can use it on wood, plastic, or brass to really make it pop.

For my leather stropping wheels - black and green then purple on a loose wheel

Thanks Bruce

[dikman]

I'd just like to reinforce what Bladegrinder said - buffing wheels can be extremely dangerous if you get a "catch"! The loose floppy ones in particular, I approach them with a degree of caution, having had a few things grabbed by them and flung hard against the wall behind. I have a couple of different grits but I tend to use green mostly, seems to work fine for my needs.

[Leather2]

3 minutes ago, dikman said:

I'd just like to reinforce what Bladegrinder said - buffing wheels can be extremely dangerous if you get a "catch"! The loose floppy ones in particular, I approach them with a degree of caution, having had a few things grabbed by them and flung hard against the wall behind. I have a couple of different grits but I tend to use green mostly, seems to work fine for my needs.

Thank you, 

[bruce johnson]

My shop safety poster I made up for the door of the tool room

[Leather2]

21 minutes ago, bruce johnson said:

My shop safety poster I made up for the door of the tool room

That is a funny but ver true sign.

[toxo]

Don't think anyone mentioned the one that makes my blood run cold just thinking about it, someone stupid enough to get a necktie caught in a buffer or even worse, a grinder.

[bladegrinder]

13 hours ago, Leather2 said:

Thank you, Is there a reason you stack the wheels instead of getting a bigger wheel?

How corse is black compound vs green compound??

thanks

The only reason I stacked them was my wheels are 10" and at the time all I could find were 1/4", that was pre-internet days ha ha.

black is pretty much the opposite of green. if your looking to use this just for sharpening white and green should be all you need.

 

[Leather2]

1 minute ago, bladegrinder said:

The only reason I stacked them was my wheels are 10" and at the time all I could find were 1/4", that was pre-internet days ha ha.

black is pretty much the opposite of green. if your looking to use this just for sharpening white and green should be all you need.

 

Ok, thanks

[chuck123wapati]

Hand sharpening or polishing a razor sharp piece of metal at 1800 rpm with a buffing wheel is the most dangerous thing anyone can think to do and is usually done by very experienced knife makers or folks who re sell like Bruce. The only thing Bruce's safety poster(very cool btw) leaves out is if you don't need to run the machine and can use a safer method then don't. It simply isn't needed for day to day sharpening if that is your plan. Compound on a strop is what you need for that.  On compounds you can find specs and uses for the different colors on the company sites usually. The compounds i buy came with a chart showing what material each is designed for. 

I know I didn't give a positive response to using these machines and don't know your skill level with power tools but i too have to warn of the risks. 

However good luck on your endeavor and be really really carful.

[chuck123wapati]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:08 PM, bladegrinder said:

I believe I have the same buffer but 3600 rpm. I use it in knife making and have had it about 30 years. what I use are 1/4" wheels stacked to 1" you can find them at Trugrit abrasives or other knifemaking suppliers. whether you use one or stack them there is considerable time involved getting it balanced on the shaft to run true, you just have to keep adjusting it on the shaft until it runs smooth and there's no vibration. if your going with two compounds I'd go with white and green, green being the finest...and messiest. get a wheel for each compound.

congrats on the buffer, I believe the Baldor with 3/4" shafts are the best out there. and be careful a buffer can be the most dangerous machine in the shop.

Edit...the wheels I use are spiral sewn.

lol osha and our safety guys would have cut the cord on that without discussion. But you know what i have one too in my personal shop as you said scary tool.

[Leather2]

31 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Hand sharpening or polishing a razor sharp piece of metal at 1800 rpm with a buffing wheel is the most dangerous thing anyone can think to do and is usually done by very experienced knife makers or folks who re sell like Bruce. The only thing Bruce's safety poster(very cool btw) leaves out is if you don't need to run the machine and can use a safer method then don't. It simply isn't needed for day to day sharpening if that is your plan. Compound on a strop is what you need for that.  On compounds you can find specs and uses for the different colors on the company sites usually. The compounds i buy came with a chart showing what material each is designed for. 

I know I didn't give a positive response to using these machines and don't know your skill level with power tools but i too have to warn of the risks. 

However good luck on your endeavor and be really really carful.

Thanks Chuck, it’s always good to remember how dangerous the tool you are using can be.

 

[bruce johnson]

As Chuck said my needs are different than most people. I am refurbishing old tools and sharpening new ones.  My realistic safety procedure is this.

My grinders are all turned around on the bases so the top rotates away from me. I have big arrow stickers on each end of the motor to remind me of the direction of rotation. I work on the top of the wheels. I can see my edges and  I feel like I have better control of the angles. I have tubs behind each wheel to catch extra compound that flies off when applying. If something catches, it goes away from me. 

There are exhaust fans behind the grinders that will pull the dust out. I had a consult with a dust control industrial advisor to determine what capacity fans I needed. Overkilled it - full air exchange every 2 minutes.  I have an overhead air filtration unit too (Rikon). I've got an air quality meter and noticeable differences when they are on. There are summer days if we have a forest fire blowing our way my shop air is better than outside. 

Safety gear - mask with N99 cartridges. I have a face shield now from Benchmark Abrasives - awesome deal and allows masks with cartridges. Leather apron. I wear leather welding sleeves over my arms. 

The looser the wheels the more they can catch a back edge and throw a tool. Gonna be honest, it happens but way less than it used to. I don't like the airway buffs and stopped using them. Yes they run cooler, yes they are durable and perform well. Yes those folds/pleats catch back edges and throw tools like crazy. I also have gotten away from much pressure on the wheels. I almost want a butterfly kiss touch and works better than pressing into the wheel. That was a hard habit to break -grinding or buffing. I watch my angles and edges and am careful when I get to tips and corners. Again, working off the top of the wheel gives me a better picture. When I am working on handles and bolsters the edges of the blades get taped with two layers of aluminum tape. I threw more tools doing handles than edges. 

[Leather2]

7 minutes ago, bruce johnson said:

As Chuck said my needs are different than most people. I am refurbishing old tools and sharpening new ones.  My realistic safety procedure is this.

My grinders are all turned around on the bases so the top rotates away from me. I have big arrow stickers on each end of the motor to remind me of the direction of rotation. I work on the top of the wheels. I can see my edges and  I feel like I have better control of the angles. I have tubs behind each wheel to catch extra compound that flies off when applying. If something catches, it goes away from me. 

There are exhaust fans behind the grinders that will pull the dust out. I had a consult with a dust control industrial advisor to determine what capacity fans I needed. Overkilled it - full air exchange every 2 minutes.  I have an overhead air filtration unit too (Rikon). I've got an air quality meter and noticeable differences when they are on. There are summer days if we have a forest fire blowing our way my shop air is better than outside. 

Safety gear - mask with N99 cartridges. I have a face shield now from Benchmark Abrasives - awesome deal and allows masks with cartridges. Leather apron. I wear leather welding sleeves over my arms. 

The looser the wheels the more they can catch a back edge and throw a tool. Gonna be honest, it happens but way less than it used to. I don't like the airway buffs and stopped using them. Yes they run cooler, yes they are durable and perform well. Yes those folds/pleats catch back edges and throw tools like crazy. I also have gotten away from much pressure on the wheels. I almost want a butterfly kiss touch and works better than pressing into the wheel. That was a hard habit to break -grinding or buffing. I watch my angles and edges and am careful when I get to tips and corners. Again, working off the top of the wheel gives me a better picture. When I am working on handles and bolsters the edges of the blades get taped with two layers of aluminum tape. I threw more tools doing handles than edges. 

Thanks.

BTW where do you get your buffing wheels? And what thickness and diameter do you prefer for green compound. Thanks

[bruce johnson]

5 hours ago, Leather2 said:

Thanks.

BTW where do you get your buffing wheels? And what thickness and diameter do you prefer for green compound. Thanks

I get my spiral sewn and loose wheels at Ace Hardware. I get the sisal, denim, and yellow treated wheels off Amazon. I run 8” on the bench grinders and 6” on arbors for the drill press. I rake my wheels when they start to get hard.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by bruce johnson

[Leather2]

Thanks

[bladegrinder]

14 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

lol osha and our safety guys would have cut the cord on that without discussion. But you know what i have one too in my personal shop as you said scary tool.

Ha, ha.....danger lurks around every corner as soon as you go thru the gate to my property.