Trouble threading a singer 29-4

[Nametaken]

Hello everyone, my name is Derick but I go by Muddy Camping. I’m new to sewing machines so bare with my poor vocab and knowledge of these types of machines. I’ve done all my leather work up to this point with hand stitching.

I recently purchased a singer 29-4. When I got it everything moved, although I did quite a bit of cleanup and oiled it. It was missing the external spring from the back of the machine that rose the presser foot, but I have been able to side step that with a small piece of flat bar and what is a stand in for the sliding block that I intend to fabricate.

 

My question comes in that as I try to thread the machine when I get to the step where I slide the threading wire down the needle bar in the machine head the threading wire gets stuck right near the exposed part of the paddle spring that’s inset into the needle bar just above the revolving head brush(that’s the name I’m finding in the parts manual). It’s the part that gives the rotation to the walking foot. No matter if I go from the bottom or top it get stuck in that spot. I have attached a photo to show the depth that it gets stuck at. It feels like there’s something in the shaft plugging it. What it came with is a different threading wire then is original to the machine but have found and ordered one that seems more similar to the original…

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice that you all could shed on my situation and general information about this machine y’all would care to share. The little I know is that the serial number dates to 1881 Germany and the little bit I’ve been able to glean from reading countless posts on this forum about this type of machine and can gather from the manual that I have and what I’ve seen on YouTube. Thank you ahead of time. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Nametaken

[Wizcrafts]

That is NOT a proper threading wire! The real wires are totally round and are slotted on the bottom to catch the thread between the slotted legs. Some new replacement rods a just v gouged on the very end. They barely hold onto the thread. The rod should be no more than 1/32 inch in diameter.

[Constabulary]

9 hours ago, Nametaken said:

The little I know is that the serial number dates to 1881 Germany

Sorry, I doubt that. What is the serial number incl. prefix and please post pictures from front and rear.

[Nametaken]

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

That is NOT a proper threading wire! The real wires are totally round and are slotted on the bottom to catch the thread between the slotted legs. Some new replacement rods a just v gouged on the very end. They barely hold onto the thread. The rod should be no more than 1/32 inch in diameter.

I wondered. Thank you sir. I have the threading tool like you showed on its way. For my general edification, because I truly want to learn about this machine, and I have read a lot of your responses in posts about these machines, would I be wrong to assume that you could explain what it is that is causing this blockage? Is there a taper to the hole? Part of my curiosity and concern is that there was quite a thick layers of what I’m assuming are years of dried oil and gunk on some of the exposed inner working parts which I would expect at this point from a machine of its age. Everything is “cleaned up” and seems to have its necessary movement except the revolving head brush that spins the walking foot which gets occasionally a slight catch when rotating it. I have found if I then reverse the direction it does not appear again. None of the movement is from sewing rather cleaning, my initial learning that lead to attempts to understand the mechanics, and attempts to thread the machine. 
Thank you again for the information. 

[Nametaken]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Sorry, I doubt that. What is the serial number incl. prefix and please post pictures from front and rear.

Ok, I’m trying to resize photos and so far this is the only one I can get to upload. Let me try and find a better tutorial because cropping them is not working.

[Nametaken]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Sorry, I doubt that. What is the serial number incl. prefix and please post pictures from front and rear.

Alright. I found a way to make the files smaller! If they’re too small let me know, this was the “small” option.

I’m looking it up again trying to find the source and am wondering it I initially had it wrong. One one site it has just the serial number dated to with in the range the 1881’s and another site is bringing in the letter saying it’s in 1916-1918. Please, let me know what you know… I’m new to all this. 

[kgg]

38 minutes ago, Nametaken said:

One one site it has just the serial number dated to with in the range the 1881’s and another site is bringing in the letter saying it’s in 1916-1918. Please, let me know what you know… I’m new to all this. 

The site for dating the Singers I would use the " International Sewing Machine Collectors' Society ".

Dating your Singer by serial number ( G4763530 ) indicates it was made in Elizabethport between 1916 -1918 and with your machines having a low number for that series probably built in 1916. ( https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/singer_dating_by_serial_number.html ). The way I read the information is that 29K machines built prior to 1900 had No serial numbers.

As far as getting the thread through if you have access to a length of #20 AWG copper wire, guitar string I think is smaller at #22 AW or  #13 piano wire. Those should go through.

kgg

 

[Wizcrafts]

A hobby shop, or well stocked hardware store should have thin steel rods. Since patchers weren't expected to use thread larger than 3 cord, buy a rod no larger than .020 inches, if not a little thinner. I personally don't exceed #138 thread in my patchers. That is equal to .0163 inches diameter. I suspect that once you receive your proper threading wire, it will push out any thread stubs that were under the paddle spring. If not, try some solvent down the snout of the needle bar. If that doesn't clear out the crap, you'll have to remove the needle bar assembly.

[Nametaken]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

The site for dating the Singers I would use the " International Sewing Machine Collectors' Society ".

Dating your Singer by serial number ( G4763530 ) indicates it was made in Elizabethport between 1916 -1918 and with your machines having a low number for that series probably built in 1916. ( https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/singer_dating_by_serial_number.html ). The way I read the information is that 29K machines built prior to 1900 had No serial numbers.

As far as getting the thread through if you have access to a length of #20 AWG copper wire, guitar string I think is smaller at #22 AW or  #13 piano wire. Those should go through.

kgg

 

I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. I think when I first got it I had gotten mixed up initially and in my mind somehow disassociated the letter from the number. A different site referenced my machines number alone with the year 1881 year and later read something saying the G meant made in Germany. When I was just looking to respond to Constabulary was when I saw the site you brought up with the correct time frame.

It just so happens I have a broken string on my guitar. I will be trying it while impatiently waiting on the new threading wire coming in the mail… Thank you for your input and help! 
 

[Nametaken]

44 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

A hobby shop, or well stocked hardware store should have thin steel rods. Since patchers weren't expected to use thread larger than 3 cord, buy a rod no larger than .020 inches, if not a little thinner. I personally don't exceed #138 thread in my patchers. That is equal to .0163 inches diameter. I suspect that once you receive your proper threading wire, it will push out any thread stubs that were under the paddle spring. If not, try some so9lvent down the snout of the needle bar. If that doesn't clear out the crap, you'll have to remove the needle bar assembly.

I greatly appreciate the tips. KGG suggested a guitar string. I have a number of options now and frequent my local hardware store. Interesting too about the thread, I will be getting some. Thank you sir. Let’s hope I can get the stuffed knocked out with one of these wires. If not I already saw your response about the steps to disassemble the head. Greatly appreciated! 

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, Nametaken said:

I greatly appreciate the tips. KGG suggested a guitar string. I have a number of options now and frequent my local hardware store. Interesting too about the thread, I will be getting some. Thank you sir. Let’s hope I can get the stuffed knocked out with one of these wires. If not I already saw your response about the steps to disassemble the head. Greatly appreciated! 

A plain 20 gauge guitar string is too flexible to push past the paddle spring, especially if there is debris under it.

 

[AlZilla]

4 hours ago, kgg said:

29K machines built prior to 1900 had No serial numbers.

I don't that's correct. Prior to 1900, Singer machines had serial numbers but no letter prefix. Post 1900. everything started with a letter.

[Nametaken]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

A plain 20 gauge guitar string is too flexible to push past the paddle spring, especially if there is debris under it.

 

Found this out the hard way. It’s ok though, I have a threading wire on its way! I truly appreciate your insight. May I asked how you gained so much specific knowledge of these machines? It’s inspiring. I have only found basic texts from original manuals and all the info on this site, which is nothing to turn up your nose at. Again, I’m looking for resources for my own knowledge so when I am able to use it I can be best prepared and if I do need to do things like disassemble it I may have a fighting chance. 

[Nametaken]

3 hours ago, AlZilla said:

I don't that's correct. Prior to 1900, Singer machines had serial numbers but no letter prefix. Post 1900. everything started with a letter.

True. I had looked at a few different sites and got wires crossed in my head disconnecting the letter from the numbers. It seems this one is in the 1916-1918 range based on its number.

[Nametaken]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

A hobby shop, or well stocked hardware store should have thin steel rods. Since patchers weren't expected to use thread larger than 3 cord, buy a rod no larger than .020 inches, if not a little thinner. I personally don't exceed #138 thread in my patchers. That is equal to .0163 inches diameter. I suspect that once you receive your proper threading wire, it will push out any thread stubs that were under the paddle spring. If not, try some so9lvent down the snout of the needle bar. If that doesn't clear out the crap, you'll have to remove the needle bar assembly.

I have a thread question for you. I read somewhere that, I thought it was singer, suggested a #69 bonded thread for general use on these. I’m not planning on doing much actual boot patching, more making things like tool covers, belts, the occasional bag maybe… would there be advantages to using a slightly thinner thread(#69) instead of the thicker thread (#138) for how these machines function under ideal circumstances? Again, I appreciate your time and input.

[Constabulary]

You have mixed up the machine Class and the serial number. The G on the serial number is not for Germany. But G for Germany is a suffix of the machine class  f.i. 111G156, 211G141. But this only applies for machines made in Germany (in Karlsruhe) after 1954. Machines made in Germany (in Wittenberge, Prussia) until 1945 had a C prefix on the serial number and a D (but not all IIRC) as suffix of the machine class like 45D91, 96D43 and so forth. After WWII until 1954 Singer did not produce sewing machines in Germany.

You can get 29K threading wires on Ebay, Amazon, Etsy, Ali Exprsss... for a few bucks

Personally I never had problems with 138 thread in any 29K model. They all use the same hooks since for ever. But the size of the needle hole in your needle plate matters. Iif it is too small you may have problems using larger needle and thread sizes. But be aware that the bobbins are fairly small and do not hold much of the 138 thread.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Constabulary

[kgg]

15 hours ago, AlZilla said:

I don't that's correct. Prior to 1900, Singer machines had serial numbers but no letter prefix.

Yes you are correct just no letter before the serial number. I misread the information.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

15 hours ago, Nametaken said:

I have a thread question for you. I read somewhere that, I thought it was singer, suggested a #69 bonded thread for general use on these. I’m not planning on doing much actual boot patching, more making things like tool covers, belts, the occasional bag maybe… would there be advantages to using a slightly thinner thread(#69) instead of the thicker thread (#138) for how these machines function under ideal circumstances? Again, I appreciate your time and input.

I use my small bobbin Singer patchers for sewing patches onto bikers' vest pockets, or varsity jacket sleeves, or for sewing loose threads on shoe and boot uppers, or for installing zippers in boots, or on jacket sleeves. I alternate between #69 and #92 bonded nylon thread. Period; full stop.

I have a long arm large bobbin Adler patcher that I sometimes use with #138 thread, if no other machine can sew that job. The Adler is a much heavier duty patcher all around. Still, I usually have either #69 or 92 thread in the bobbins.

[Nametaken]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:21 AM, Constabulary said:

You have mixed up the machine Class and the serial number. The G on the serial number is not for Germany. But G for Germany is a suffix of the machine class  f.i. 111G156, 211G141. But this only applies for machines made in Germany (in Karlsruhe) after 1954. Machines made in Germany (in Wittenberge, Prussia) until 1945 had a C prefix on the serial number and a D (but not all IIRC) as suffix of the machine class like 45D91, 96D43 and so forth. After WWII until 1954 Singer did not produce sewing machines in Germany.

You can get 29K threading wires on Ebay, Amazon, Etsy, Ali Exprsss... for a few bucks

Personally I never had problems with 138 thread in any 29K model. They all use the same hooks since for ever. But the size of the needle hole in your needle plate matters. Iif it is too small you may have problems using larger needle and thread sizes. But be aware that the bobbins are fairly small and do not hold much of the 138 thread.

 

Interesting. Ya, I was mixing up the class part of the serial number with a lack of background knowledge on my part. I appreciate the insight. I just received a proper threading wire, I’m very excited!

I will be starting off with a #69 thread and eventually trying the larger #138.
 

 

On 11/26/2023 at 11:19 AM, Wizcrafts said:

I use my small bobbin Singer patchers for sewing patches onto bikers' vest pockets, or varsity jacket sleeves, or for sewing loose threads on shoe and boot uppers, or for installing zippers in boots, or on jacket sleeves. I alternate between #69 and #92 bonded nylon thread. Period; full stop.

I have a long arm large bobbin Adler patcher that I sometimes use with #138 thread, if no other machine can sew that job. The Adler is a much heavier duty patcher all around. Still, I usually have either #69 or 92 thread in the bobbins.

Good to know. I’ll keep that in mind as I order new thread. Thank you.