Covering swells

[bruce johnson]

Changing gears from trees here. Randy's post on the Hamley saddle and his comment about "Someone took a lot of time to form those swells" got me thinking. I had an old guy talk me through it several years ago about covering some swell forks without welts. I took a class from Jesse Smith last year at Wickenburg, and he had some more tricks that have helped. I have still been beaten by some, and then gone ahead and welted them. I really don't have anything against welts. I think mine turn out well enough, but just don't like to do them if I don't have to.

I would like this to kind of go in a few directions. What kind of swells can you more consistanly not welt? Particular selection of leather? Skiving or casing tips? Forming and compressing tips? If you do welt, do you use a single welt, folded welt, or blind stitch? Laces instead of a welt? Welts to the front, down the sides, or pulled to the rear? Tips and tricks are always appreciated.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Bruce,

I don't have all the answers to your questions but a few things I've noticed about covering swell forks... Forks that have more undercut to them tend to be more difficult or impossible to cover without a welt. Sometimes you can cover a difficult swell fork without a welt by really working the leather and stretching it every which way only to have the cover split when you stamp it because the leather is under some tension. Obviously belly leather is going to stretch more and be easier to mold over the swells, but it'll wear quicker is someone or something is rubbing on it. It also won't carve as nicely if this is a consideration. Trying to find a piece of leather that has some life to it, can still be molded, will wear relatively slowly, and can be carved, is an art.

Darc

[jwwright]

I am anxiously awaiting everyone's words of wisdom on this topic. I have recovered a bowman and wade forks in the past without welts. Currently, I am working on my 3rd complete saddle, start to finish. All have been swell forks thus far. I have done laced up swells on these, mainly because I like it........it's a southwest cowpuncher thing, I guess. I have done some hidden stitch type in the past, which I think works well if a fella is going to carve the swells. I would sure like to do some larger swell forks in the future without welts or laces. Thanks.

[TracyMoss]

If you are open ( minded ) to lacing the back of the swell you can cover alot larger swell fork without welts. I have found that roughout swells are easier to cover in one piece without having to split the back and lace it. Just my two cents.

[AndyKnight]

I can usually cover bowman with no issues welt free. Modified association can be tough But I have done tons of them over the years. Now I just love wades!!! I figure that sadlemakers and treemakers should be able to charge more for swell forks.

I just covered one that had higher shoulders than a bowman. similar to a mod association. It was about the limit. for me as it was folded under itself around the rim of the fork. If you pink the front and run it under the front of the fork you can get quite a bit of leather pushed in there. Also cut your seat generously and you can cover quite a bit.

Years ago I used to cover some by cover ing the gullet and the fork with one piece. I cut them with gullet going in to the flank.

The old Muir Macdonald leather was great for covering forks!

Now I usually cut my fork covers out of the shoulder . a good balance between mold-ability and durability.

Any time you have to really work at it you will have an issue with stamping or carving as you have stretch, hammer , and rub the leather so much to smooth it out.

Bottom line I hand stitch folded welts in most of my forks with higher shoulders usually straight down the side. Sometimes I will use a blind stitch.

I am a contact cement guy and that is what I use now on my swell forks aswell. I case the leather really well and allow it to dry enough to where it will stick with contact. I fit the cover, horn hole , hand hole and the fork rim. I then take it off , roll my fork rim, and glue, rough it up and glue around the fork rim , horn and hand hole. both on the cover and on the tree.

Now before placing it on I wet the rest of the fork cover,with water and then apply copious amount of glue so that it won't dry right away.

Now place it on the fork . The areas that are glued and dry you can stick in the place you want them and they will stay. eg: get your horn hole and fork rim lined up perfectly. placed. nail, Now you can spike down the rest. When it is dry it is tight and glued down forever.

Not very traditional but it works for me.

I hate lacing up behind the horn unless I absolutely have to. !!. It is a lazy thing.!

Edited February 16, 2008 by AndyKnight

[kseidel]

I agree with Andy, roper and wade swells are easy without welts. Higher shoulders and more undercut or leg cut increases the degree of dificulty exponentially! I once covered a 15 inch low moose without welts..... It can be done, but I won't do it again. Modified Assocations up to 13 inches wide, Roper or rounded swells also to 13 inches. Will James and Liewellan fronts up to 12 inches are possible, but much more difficult. The undercut presents the biggest problem, and rigging filling the space will change the dynamics a bit.

I find that thicker leather is easier than thin. It absorbs the wrinkles better. I prefer the shoulder or central belly area for swell covers. I want the more open fibers for flexibility, but many times the shoulder area will be thick on one side and too thin on the other. Thinner, softer leather would seem to be easier to mold, but I find the opposite to be true.

Folded welts are much stronger than single ply, and wear much better. Where you place the welt not only affects wear, but affects cosmetics. You can drastically change the look of your saddle by where you place the welt. If placed contrary to the natural curves of the swell, it can look out of place. ie: butting a straught vertical side welt on a bull moose with well defined leg cut. Following the curve along or parallel to the leg cut would look much better. Putting the welt in the front in, in this case would also be good.

A blind stitch welt tends to shrink and develop a gap showing the stitching over time. Placement of a blind stitch is critical... you would not want to put the welt over a sharp edge of the swell.

Most beginners welt their swells too tight. This creates problems getting over the shoulders, as well as forming gaps in the welt when dry. Remember, even on a welted swell, you can shrink and mold a great deal of leather around the bottom of the swell and into the hand hole.

You ask a lot of questions in your post Bruce. Hard to give a short simple reply! HaHa

Keith

[bruce johnson]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Keith, by the way, I do ask a lot of questions sometimes, but I figure lay them all out and let it roll.

Just a few disjointed ramblings and observations.

I am with Keith on thicker leather absorbing wrinkles better. That is how I was originally taught - skive the area where the swell base meets the bars to maybe 9-10 oz and not any thinner. Too thin and the wrinkles don't absorb, they fold over. Still flat, but a rough look. I like low center of the belly right in the middle. Usually the thickness is consistant side to side. I found when I used low neck, one side was thicker. One side always laid right in and the other side wanted to fight. If I am going to fight one, I want to do it on both sides - then just go ahead and welt it. One thing with doing a lot of repairs is that I have cut covers from about everywhere but the butt. I have had some shoulders lay in nicely cut vertically, not every one though. Not enough to make me want to cut them all there either.

I also was taught to visualize the excess in thirds. Pull it down and tack so that about one third of the excess is towards the front of the swell and 2/3 to the rear. I have talked to guys who go half and half and welt more than I do. From where I cut the ones that work - that front third is denser so will take up less slack and there is more fudge room over the groundwork to work wrinkles into.

Case with warmish water. Seems to work a little better.

Working out wrinkles - can o' worms. In the Bruce Cheaney videos he tacks a strip on the side down low where it be covered, and then pivots it around and uses it to beat against working from top to bottom. ("wiping strip"?) I was taught to nail at both ends. Divide the excess in half and put a small nail in the middle. Work that excess in each "bubble" as much as it would compress, then divide that excess in half, tack again in the middle and so on. All the time dividing the bubble rather than chasing it side to side. Jesse Smith taught last year to tie surgical tubing (heavy elastic) in a double wrap around each side of the swell like a big rubber band on each side. Work the slack down under that elastic and it pretty well held it. That has helped some of mine, in conjuction with a few nails. It will sure suck one in tight on the bottom sometimes. I have had some I was about to give up on, came back a couple hours later or next morning, and the temper was just right - one pass of the slicker or tap and that bubble is gone.

Some swells just don't lend themselves to unsplit covers. I have found that the thinner forks like the BW and the barrel racers are bears, undercuts and severe leg cuts ditto. JUst plan on welts from the start. The low TM roper swells are cake - no welts. I can usually do the Dee Picketts, Bowmans, Olin Youngs alright. I am with Andy, slick forks are the way to fly. Anybody charge extra to cover or recover swell forks vs. slick forks? Upcharge for welts vs. no welts?

[kseidel]

Slick forks are great until you want to cover the swell and gullet all with one piece. Then there is too much material to stuff into the gullet.

Keith

[TroyWest]

All these answers are on the money. I just covered a mod. assoc. yesterday, no welt. My next saddle is a mod. assoc. and the customer requested no welt, but it's about his 5th saddle. I don't charge extra on new saddles but I once had an order for a guy who sent me 11 pages of what he wanted. One request was a 16" swell with no welt. I charged him $100.00 extra and did it on the 1st try. I'm sorry I didn't take a picture. I built a couple of ranch cutters last year. These are the only ones I put a hidden welt on. It's totally accepted in cutter world but I don't like it on cowboy saddles at all. It's easy to do but it just aint punchy enough, and it does tend to gap over time. I really prefer no welt but when I do I'll put the welt to the front like a bronc saddle, for the same reasons. If you lock up on the swell your not against the welt. Another thing I do is after putting a nail at the base of the swell in front, at the gullet, I'll take my dog pliars and pull at the front stirrup leather groove to put a nail up by the handhold. Then I'll take my rubbing stick and push that leather down from horn to middle of swell base and then to front side and then to the back. Then I'll take my french hammer and using a thick piece of scap leather against the swell sort of beat that leather down the middle in the same process, then to the front, to the rear, just splitting the differences. If the leather is to stiff to the front, direct more to the rear, If not just split the differences. I do have contact cement under there and this method works for me. Hope I explained it adequately. Here are a couple of pictures of mod. assoc., One with a welt and one without.

[jwwright]

Thanks for all the thoughts and tips fellers. Keep it coming. I am starting another ranch cutter this week, with thicker and lower swells than a typical Buster Welch front. Gonna see if I can't get it covered without a welt. Thanks again.