Old tools with paint - what do I do?

[SUP]

@bruce johnson . That will save a lot of time. Thank you for the tip.

I'm notorious for forgetting things on the stove  What happens if I forget and the Evaporust comes to a boil? I hope it will not damage the tools.

I'm wondering whether to use Evaporust or lemon juice as I hope the metal parts slip out of the wooden handles without too much  of an effort needed. Lemon juice will not damage the wood, but Evaporust does, is it not? Maybe both.

[dikman]

Another "environmentally-friendly" way is to soak the metal parts in molasses, it's an olde-school method for removing rust (and probably paint too). It's a slow process, but at least you're not working with hazardous  products.

[SUP]

@dikman but then, how do you get out the molasses? Especially from inside the handle?  It is very sticky isn't it?

[fredk]

Leave them out on the grass and let the ants have a feast  

[dikman]

Yeah, that will work. I was thinking more about the metal, not wood. I would guess warm water should do it?

[SUP]

LOL.

Right now, the rust and paint or whatever it was, is mostly off. Some of the tools have come out of the handles, most have not. So maybe lemon juice.. have plenty of  them for fresh juice. Let's see. No hurry. The polishing. Have absolutely no idea how to polish.

[bruce johnson]

16 hours ago, SUP said:

@bruce johnson . That will save a lot of time. Thank you for the tip.

I'm notorious for forgetting things on the stove  What happens if I forget and the Evaporust comes to a boil? I hope it will not damage the tools.

I'm wondering whether to use Evaporust or lemon juice as I hope the metal parts slip out of the wooden handles without too much  of an effort needed. Lemon juice will not damage the wood, but Evaporust does, is it not? Maybe both.

I guess for the few minutes it takes, I usually just sit there and watch it simmer. Never let it boil away before. Evaporust is safe for wood and rubber so cold soaks are fine. 

[jasj]

Another successful way of rust removal is by electrolysis, using a washing soda solution, immersing the rusty item in the solution, attached to the negative clip of a 12 volt battery charger and the positive to a piece of sacrifice iron or steel. there are plenty of Youtube clips of this method, just be aware that hydrogen gas is produced by this method. This method does not remove any metal from the item compared with filing or grinding.

[SUP]

@jasj electrolysis is really effective, I agree. I used it some years ago to clean all my old iron pots and pans. I might need to set it up again if I keep getting old tools. Once set up, it is much easier to carry out.

@bruce johnson yes it is a few minutes, but I am notorious in my circle for forgetting things on the stove. A couple of dishes have even been named after that, something to the order of 'spicy burnt potatoes'.  So  anything cold is best, I think.

 

[chuck123wapati]

vinegar, 3 bucks a gallon, safe to use, save some for your salad, wash your windows, destroys hard water buildup on tile and glass, add to your laundry, make some vinagaroon, make some pickles, also removes a half dozen other unneeded products in your cupboard.

[dikman]

The best way to polish is with an electric buffer, you can easily get a mirror finish on steel. Just be very careful with anything that has a sharp edge as they can easily catch on the buffing wheel and the results can range from spectacular to scary!

If you want to do it by hand then work through various grits of sandpaper, using water with the finer grits which will give a very smooth finish and then use metal polish.

[SUP]

@dikman I will probably have to start using electrical instruments.  I cannot possibly do everything by hand. That would leave me with little or no time for actual leatherwork!

Come to think of it, I think I do have an electric buffer somewhere. 

@chuck123wapati I used to use vinegar earlier but once the rust is gone, if I don't take the tools out in time, they stain. I always forget. That is why I stopped.

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, SUP said:

@dikman I will probably have to start using electrical instruments.  I cannot possibly do everything by hand. That would leave me with little or no time for actual leatherwork!

Come to think of it, I think I do have an electric buffer somewhere. 

@chuck123wapati I used to use vinegar earlier but once the rust is gone, if I don't take the tools out in time, they stain. I always forget. That is why I stopped.

 

Sometimes ya gotta add up the pros and cons. Dont know how to polish. cant boil water, cant remember simple tasks with dangerous chemicals, no knowledge of power tools, don't have the time to learn how to use or apply either one properly. The pros are ? you may end up with a shiny old tool.

I would strongly suggest you leave this job to professionals no chemical you use or apply is going to allow for your inability to remember what you are doing. And then add on learning to polish, seriously please don't go near a buffer without someone to show you.

[dikman]

High-speed buffing wheels are considered by many to be extremely dangerous to use, and with good reason. The loose muslin wheels are the most dangerous, unfortunately they're the ones that give the nice polish. I mount my buffers on an outside table with nothing behind them so when things get caught they get flung into the ground. I used them inside a shed initially, with a metal wall behind but after a couple of things got grabbed by the wheel and hit the wall I moved to outside use.

Those tools you have don't look too be too difficult to use on a buffing wheel as they don't have sharp thin edges, just keep the tangs well away from the wheel as they are exactly what can get caught.

[SUP]

Thanks @dikman I'll take care about that. I really appreciate people like you who are so helpful and give me the guidance to learn new things. And do not treat me like I am senile because I am sometimes absent minded.  I have been so since I was a teenager and if I had been discouraged like another here is trying to do, I would have not achieved anything at all. So thank you.

@chuck123wapati Hahaha. You make me sound like I am ready for a hospice or already living in one. Absent-mindedness, I believe, is a mark of brilliance. .  You might not understand that.

As for the rest, I spent my life doing medical research, interior design, computer programming, running a tech company,  among other things. All white collar stuff. Now I want to do things with my hands... so learning. I will be learning new things until I die. Going to professionals is not an option because I want to learn and do.

Until now, .I did not know how to use tools because  I never had reason to use them. I  had plenty of people to do it for me. Now I want to learn. That is the fun of life. Learning something new all the time. I bet all the old timers here had a time when they were new as well. I hope no one told them, that they forget and are therefore unsuited to do whatever they want to do. Youngsters forget as well. When young certainly, but then, they were not busy spending 18-20 hours a day doing medical  research in the field and in the lab. We all can learn and do some things, not all things throughout our lives. The trick is in always learning, not stagnating and not saying 'I know.. I know!' but instead saying, "What else can I learn".

And that is all I am going to say about that. 

[jrdunn]

@SUP, Learn, do and more power to you.  But please be careful.  I forget my share of stuff too.  A buffer is a dangerous tool but probably not beyond your abilities.  Someone on this forum posted this.  (Yeah, who is just another thing that I forgot.)  JM2C, Jim

PS.  I've "thrown" a few things myself but no one has been injured yet.

 

[SUP]

2 minutes ago, jrdunn said:

 

Love that!

@jrdunn That is a very nice thing to say.  Thank you. I will continue to learn and do. 

And don't worry. I am very, very careful with tools. I will be as careful with buffers as well.  I learn all I can, get all the possible information about precautions and dangers and then use a tool for the first time. Takes time but I am usually safe.

 I am of the 'know all you can' brigade, not the 'learn as you go' brigade in matters of safety when using tools, chemicals and everything else. Hence my dozens of questions  about things. That is after internet searches. 

That is why I appreciate all you really nice people here who understand and share your knowledge so willingly.

[bruce johnson]

Seems like a good time to bring out the OSHA-like safety poster I made up several years ago for the door to my tool working shop. It is laminated and still there for a daily reminder. 

[bruce johnson]

6 hours ago, dikman said:

High-speed buffing wheels are considered by many to be extremely dangerous to use, and with good reason. The loose muslin wheels are the most dangerous, unfortunately they're the ones that give the nice polish. I mount my buffers on an outside table with nothing behind them so when things get caught they get flung into the ground. I used them inside a shed initially, with a metal wall behind but after a couple of things got grabbed by the wheel and hit the wall I moved to outside use.

Those tools you have don't look too be too difficult to use on a buffing wheel as they don't have sharp thin edges, just keep the tangs well away from the wheel as they are exactly what can get caught.

Exactly right! When they grab and throw a tool it is exciting. I reverse the buffers on the cradles so they rotate away from me on the top. I work off the top of the wheel where I have better visibility of the edge and maintain a more consistent angle. I have arrow stickers on the top of every buffer showing the direction of rotation to keep it in mind. When I had a helper the arrows reminded him these are opposite of most shops. I don't throw tools like I used to for sure.  when I do it is thrown away from me and not into my lower body like it was before I reversed them all.

The wheels I had the most problems with grabbing a tool are the airway pleated wheels. The  chrome detailers, refurbishers, abrasive dealers all told me how great they are - longer life, hold compound better, run cooler, etc. Buy them, guarantee you will like them they said. I bought a decent assortment of airways and I was throwing tools like a monkey throws poop. Those pleats were like hands grabbing the back edge of a knife or even a shank on a handled tool like a creaser. My shop helper found jobs in the other shop areas. I figured I was in the learning curve and mucked ahead. After a week I was not much better - gave up and took them all off. 

[dikman]

Good on you SUP, all power tools have their dangers, some more than others, it's all about learning and understanding what they are. Buffers and grinders are particularly useful to leatherworkers and can be fitted with a burnishing wheel for, well, burnishing edges. The wheels on the grinder in the picture look like stitched sisal wheels, relatively safe as they don't grab the work, but can be aggressive so not used for final polishing.

I forgot to mention that when I clamp the polisher to the bench the wheel is overhanging the edge of the table so if anything catches it is flung down into the dirt. Also, if using such a polisher make sure you have a very firm grip on the item, a loose grip guarantees it will be ripped from your hands. And NEVER use the top of the wheel if it is turning towards you, this applies to buffing wheels, wire wheels and grinding wheels.

I also have a grinder set up with paper wheels for sharpening knives (they do an excellent job) and like Bruce has done I reversed the direction so I can sharpen on the top of the wheel and it turns away from me. The seller of the wheels recommended doing this and it's a bloody good idea!

There is much to learn about using power equipment, and many of us have been using them since Adam was a boy so tend to forget (or don't comprehend) how much there is to learn for someone who hasn't been exposed to their use. Don't be afraid to ask, better than doing yourself an injury by not asking.

[SUP]

@bruce johnson @dikman thank you for all that information and for being so willing to guide me. I am going to cut and paste all this information into my 'using tools' file to review each time I use something. Best way to ensure I don't forget.

I did not realize that my basic burnisher that I bought  for edge finishing,  I keep it positioned  so that the wheel turns away from me. So I have an idea what you both are talking about. Come to think of it, that is sure to have a buffer attachment. I'll look for it.  Once I get one, I will put up a pic here, so that  if there are any specific precautions needed for the type, I would love to know.

@bruce johnson  good  poster. do you mind if I print it and put it in my work area too?

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, SUP said:

Thanks @dikman I'll take care about that. I really appreciate people like you who are so helpful and give me the guidance to learn new things. And do not treat me like I am senile because I am sometimes absent minded.  I have been so since I was a teenager and if I had been discouraged like another here is trying to do, I would have not achieved anything at all. So thank you.

@chuck123wapati Hahaha. You make me sound like I am ready for a hospice or already living in one. Absent-mindedness, I believe, is a mark of brilliance. .  You might not understand that.

As for the rest, I spent my life doing medical research, interior design, computer programming, running a tech company,  among other things. All white collar stuff. Now I want to do things with my hands... so learning. I will be learning new things until I die. Going to professionals is not an option because I want to learn and do.

Until now, .I did not know how to use tools because  I never had reason to use them. I  had plenty of people to do it for me. Now I want to learn. That is the fun of life. Learning something new all the time. I bet all the old timers here had a time when they were new as well. I hope no one told them, that they forget and are therefore unsuited to do whatever they want to do. Youngsters forget as well. When young certainly, but then, they were not busy spending 18-20 hours a day doing medical  research in the field and in the lab. We all can learn and do some things, not all things throughout our lives. The trick is in always learning, not stagnating and not saying 'I know.. I know!' but instead saying, "What else can I learn".

And that is all I am going to say about that. 

Learning is a good thing and why we are all here. I was only making a point, you actually used all those negatives yourself in the thread to several folks who take the time to offer you the knowledge you ask for. When you do this to some "old timers" they say well then figure it out yourself and quit helping . A simple thanks for the suggestion is much nicer than a silly excuse for not acknowledging the suggestions. 

NUf said for me too. 

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, dikman said:

High-speed buffing wheels are considered by many to be extremely dangerous to use, and with good reason. The loose muslin wheels are the most dangerous, unfortunately they're the ones that give the nice polish. I mount my buffers on an outside table with nothing behind them so when things get caught they get flung into the ground. I used them inside a shed initially, with a metal wall behind but after a couple of things got grabbed by the wheel and hit the wall I moved to outside use.

Those tools you have don't look too be too difficult to use on a buffing wheel as they don't have sharp thin edges, just keep the tangs well away from the wheel as they are exactly what can get caught.

 

6 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Exactly right! When they grab and throw a tool it is exciting. I reverse the buffers on the cradles so they rotate away from me on the top. I work off the top of the wheel where I have better visibility of the edge and maintain a more consistent angle. I have arrow stickers on the top of every buffer showing the direction of rotation to keep it in mind. When I had a helper the arrows reminded him these are opposite of most shops. I don't throw tools like I used to for sure.  when I do it is thrown away from me and not into my lower body like it was before I reversed them all.

The wheels I had the most problems with grabbing a tool are the airway pleated wheels. The  chrome detailers, refurbishers, abrasive dealers all told me how great they are - longer life, hold compound better, run cooler, etc. Buy them, guarantee you will like them they said. I bought a decent assortment of airways and I was throwing tools like a monkey throws poop. Those pleats were like hands grabbing the back edge of a knife or even a shank on a handled tool like a creaser. My shop helper found jobs in the other shop areas. I figured I was in the learning curve and mucked ahead. After a week I was not much better - gave up and took them all off. 

 

9 hours ago, jrdunn said:

@SUP, Learn, do and more power to you.  But please be careful.  I forget my share of stuff too.  A buffer is a dangerous tool but probably not beyond your abilities.  Someone on this forum posted this.  (Yeah, who is just another thing that I forgot.)  JM2C, Jim

PS.  I've "thrown" a few things myself but no one has been injured yet.

 

Thanks guys sometimes we forget some folks just don't know and when we suggest learning to use dangerous tools or harmful chemicals we should always also think of the safety measures and acknowledge those as well. an open wheeled buffer is possibly the most dangerous tool in the shop mainly because it just doesn't look dangerous, mine stuck a knife blank three inches into the wall.

 

Working inmates my whole life I've seen my share of stoopid accidents as well none are fun some are deadly. 

[dikman]

9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

an open wheeled buffer is possibly the most dangerous tool in the shop mainly because it just doesn't look dangerous, mine stuck a knife blank three inches into the wall.

That pretty well sums it up Chuck. I have grinders, belt grinders, mills, lathes, welders, hand operated power tools, air tools etc etc and the one thing that makes me jittery when using it is the loose layered buffing wheel!

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, dikman said:

That pretty well sums it up Chuck. I have grinders, belt grinders, mills, lathes, welders, hand operated power tools, air tools etc etc and the one thing that makes me jittery when using it is the loose layered buffing wheel!

Someone loses an eye and the first thing the lawyers will ask is who told you to run this with absolutely no experience. I didn't pay 30 years on my house to give it away.  Although I don't doubt a persons ability to learn to use a dangerous tool all i have to go on is what they write, if they say they cant do this or that or have no experience then I'm not going to suggest they just jump in and  get er done. I try to err on caution and safety.

A buffer is one of those tools I feel you need hands on teaching. If it hurts a feeling waah to bad I don't care but that person isn't going to be physically hurt because i told them to do something they don't have the skill set for.