Machine for heavier leather jackets?

[pyralis]

Ok so I've been struggling back and forth for a few months over what machine to get. Let me start with that I live in a very small NYC apt one floor up. Space is very limited and I can't have more than one machine. Ideally it would be something I can move when I need to move apartments. There is no elevator.

I'm looking I do items like handbags and leather jackets. I have a commission for a slightly heavier leather jacket item. The customer is wanting a medium to firm 2.0 thickness leather. They want it to have some strength so if they were to pull heavily from attached d-rings the leather won't rip.

I've been doing my leatherwork by hand the last few years since I moved cross country and sold off my old walking foot industrial singer (it was quite old and would break down often).

Being in the city and not having a car I would ideally like a new machine by a company with good support and easy to get parts if it does need work. I don't have the luxury of being able to haul it to a repair shop if something goes wrong.

Any suggestions on a machine? I basically need a sort of one shot machine that can do most things. This jacket is probably the heaviest item I plan to make although I know some of the leather bags and cases can get pretty thick where lots of areas attach together...

I was thinking of a Sailrite Fabricator with the leather kit add on that has the speed reduction. 

However I'm actually not sure if I NEED a cylinder arm machine to do curves on the leather jacket like the shoulders and sleeves. I have never used a cylinder machine just as an FYI. But for cylinder I was liking the TechSew 2750 Pro cause it has that flatbed attachment so it looks like it has more versatility. The biggest problem is that the TechSew aside from being much more expensive... Is that I've never used one or known anyone to use one personally so I have no idea how reliable they are or if they break a lot or the parts are much more expensive to replace than other machines.

I've already tried looking for places in the city that might have both machines I can try out but I haven't had any luck.

This forum was suggested to me by a leatherwork Facebook group so here I am.

Thanks!

 

 

[Dwight]

This may not work for you . . . but I have a Singer model 6800C . . . that I got for doing lighter leather work.

On Ebay . . . https://www.ebay.com/itm/374896756955?epid=10041454101&itmmeta=01HZ3H9NT837YTP72W8VG1Q29P&hash=item57499688db:g:k1oAAOSwaqRk5glf&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8Dh9V5%2FtBAi6HE5PCbE5Wrfsqmi0LzGNxb6OvQQIsJ5%2F4xH4uEUV%2BQWaKf4f8NCJTKb%2FoX0lF2OaNrMRHiexn%2F8BixUOr37IVOthsZGNlapgd576HfEMLwSLV2vg9M6EffBj7Q%2B90l%2B30RM47tLUd106F17XPOmFdZIGaqJ2QBV%2Fshq%2BuofR3c6DhcYUYj%2FsRGhe8Mvs4MX8nx%2BqccwullNgA%2FyHvlidkeVsdyN8tnsopUl24Ky4axUIs9wM29Lp8QILk47jjmWLNHdS%2FxuD9taeFkrDKLTHik0q%2FfAbPE3C9iXzmSmuYRDrKB%2Bz28QiFg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6jdpvH4Yw

I've sewn some thinner vegetable tanned and other leathers with it . . . and I use carpet thread exclusively.  The leather will rip apart before it breaks the carpet thread.

Go to a Singer sewing center . . . take some leather samples with you . . . and stop at Joanns and get a spool of carpet thread . . . tell the sales person you want to see a demo of that product.

It just may do exactly what you want . . . and even though it has a lot of other options on it . . . I do straight and zig zag stitching only . . . and I love it.

I have a couple of vests I need to make . . . similar to what the folks wore on the old Ponderosa show and others . . . I will definitely make them on my Singer.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited May 30 by Dwight

[pyralis]

Hi Dwight, 

Thanks for the input, however I'm not wanting to do light wear. I'm thinking something rugged and durable and stiffer. I'm looking at the leatherwrks Monte Carlo leather specifically. I'll need to sew through multiple layers of it and probably line it with a suede or a quilted lamb. Think something like a leather straight jacket or a leather fencing jacket. 

I have that machine you posted and it's dinky and won't do even two layers of what I'm trying to sew. It's not a professional level industrial machine like what I'm needing.

 

*** Also I don't know why I can't edit the main post but I meant to put TechSew 2750 pro not 2500

Edited May 30 by pyralis

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, pyralis said:

*** Also I don't know why I can't edit the main post but I meant to put TechSew 2750 pro not 2500

I edited the model number for you. There is only a short window of opportunity for members to edit a post before it stops allowing edits. Moderators can always edit a post for you.

[dikman]

"I basically need a sort of one shot machine that can do most things."

Ahh, the mythical unicorn of sewing machines. Every leatherworker who uses a machine would like one of those. Paradoxically, the machine that comes closest is also one of the biggest/heaviest, a 441 clone. Using a modified needleplate/feed dog, as made by a couple of members on here, it can sew using very heavy #347 thread down to #69 (if you can find the right size needle). BUT they are big heavy machines!

[kgg]

13 hours ago, pyralis said:

I'm looking I do items like handbags and leather jackets.

 

13 hours ago, pyralis said:

The customer is wanting a medium to firm 2.0 thickness leather.

The measurement of 2.0 are you saying 2.0 mm or 2 ounce leather as there is quite a bit of difference in thickness. A good reference chart for thickness of leather ( https://www.weaverleathersupply.com/pages/leather-thickness ) shows: i) 2.0 mm of leather is about 5/64" to be a touch over 5 ounce leather

ii) 2.0 ounce leather is only 0.78 mm which is about 1/32"

So if you mean 2.0 mm thick leather you are probably going to have places in the jacket exterior that are 3 or 4 times that thickness which could mean sewing items in the high range of 5/16" thick. The high range would be just under the 3/8" rating of most upholstery class machines. Then you are planning on add the interior suede or the thicker quilted lamb and I think you are going to be over the upholstery class machines sewing ability. That would then put you into at least a Class 341 / 1341 machine which can typically sew up to 1/2" thick.

Note:

i) The upholstery class machines would be machines like the Juki DNU-1541S and clones or the Sailrite Fabricator which is a Singer clone of something like the Singer 111W if I'm not mistaken.

ii) The Class 341/ 1341 machines which are cylinder bed machines would be like the older Juki LS-341 and clones and the newer Juki LS-1341 and clones. If I'm not mistaken the Techsew 2750 is a clone of the Juki LS-341.

In my opinion a cylinder bed machine in the Class 341 / 1341 if the total thickness is below 1/2" would probably be the better bet as you can turn a cylinder arm into sort of a flatbed by installing a flatbed attachment but not the other way around. Once you are at the 1/2" mark then you are into a class 441 machine like the Juki TSC-441 and clones.

Also what is your budget???

Buy Once, Cry Once

kgg

 

Edited May 30 by kgg

[pyralis]

Hi KGG

So the leather is listed on their website as "Hide Thickness (Weight) : 1.8/2.0 mm" which means that the fabric would be layered thicker along seams. 

I was hoping to stay in the $2k budget but could muster a bit more if necessary to get the proper machine. I just need to really justify and make sure that the machine I land on can do the job.

But again it can't be so huge of a machine that I can't move it or get it up a flight of stairs without an elevator. It really sucks being so limited on space since I'm in NYC and a renter.

Would I need a cylinder machine to do a leather jacket in the above leather? Can a flatbed machine do it?

Thanks!

[kgg]

3 hours ago, pyralis said:

But again it can't be so huge of a machine that I can't move it or get it up a flight of stairs without an elevator.

Weight of machines:

i) A flatbed Juki DNU-1541S and clones. The head alone will weight approximately 28 kg or 62 lb.

ii) A cylinder bed Juki LS-341 and clones. The head alone will weight approximately 37.5 kg or 83 lb.

iii) A class 441 Juki TSC-441 and clones. The head alone will weight approximately 56 kg or 124 lb.

3 hours ago, pyralis said:

I was hoping to stay in the $2k budget but could muster a bit more if necessary to get the proper machine.

Your budget for a new machine:

i) Flatbed Juki DNU-1541S clone will cost about $1600 plus tax and shipping

ii) Cylinder bed Juki LS-1341 clone will about $2400 plus tax and shipping

iii) Cylinder bed Juki TSC-441 clone will about $3000 plus tax and shipping

Depending on where you are located in some cases it would probably be better to buy a new machine.

3 hours ago, pyralis said:

I just need to really justify and make sure that the machine I land on can do the job.

The only way you can be guaranteed that the machine you choose will work is to visit a brick and mortar store to test run various machines on a sample of your stuff with the size of thread you are planning on using. Chances are NO one machine will do the jacket properly from start to finish. I think it is going to be a combination of machines, Skiver, Cylinder bed with a flatbed attachment. Others who make jackets would be able to provide what machines would be best.

kgg

[kgg]

@pyralis I did get a chance to look at some video's on the construction of leather jackets and found that the machines of choice seem to be long arm flatbed machines, leather skivers and fur / sheepskin sewing machines. The two video's I did enjoy the most were of making a leather jacket and a Bomber style sheepskin jacket. Both were from South Korea so they are using Sun Star equipment which makes sense as they are made in South Korea. They appear to be using long arm Sun Star walking foot machines which appear to have similar sewing abilities as that of a Juki DNU-1541S or a Juki LU-1508.

Leather Jacket video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI29Suta2o

At 10:13 shows 4 layers of leather
At 12:37 shows 6 layers of leather at the corner where the zipper meets
 

Sheepskin Bomber Jacket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI29Suta2oA

At 10:26 shows how the sleeves are attached with a fur/sheepskin sewing machine

kgg

 

[Wizcrafts]

19 hours ago, pyralis said:

Would I need a cylinder machine to do a leather jacket in the above leather? Can a flatbed machine do it?

A flat bed walking foot machine is the easiest to use for assembling jackets. Due to the thickness of some of the seams and layers, a Juki LU-1508NH might be a good machine. It has higher lift because it uses System 190 needles and can handle up to #207 thread, top and bottom.