Questions about latigo

[Chitin]

Hi, I'm new here but I've been making leather wrist cuffs and collars for human wear for a while now. Lately I've been using 8-10 oz latigo and loving it, but I'm worried about a few things.

Firstly, I understand that latigo, like many chrome-tanned leathers, has a tendency for colors to run when wet. I use burgundy latigo and dye it (usually) black; I haven't had any issues personally with it, but as I put more items up for sale the danger of them damaging someone's expensive white shirt worries me. Is this a significant danger? This brings me to my next question...

Super Shene. I've tried coating the leather, with mixed results. There is one cuff that my girlfriend wears all the time; the laquer has begun to peel off of it. The thing is, I don't know if this is because it doesn't take well to the oily leather, or if I didn't wait for the dye to dry enough before I coated it. Both seem equally likely.

Finally, is there any reason why latigo seems to come only in burgundy and black? Siegel's and Hide House have other colors, but most sources just have those two. Next time I buy a side, I'm probably going to go with a tan so that I can dye it other colors. Is there any reason why I shouldn't? Would it be weaker or something?

Thanks so much for your help!

[freak]

I have no idea. Sorry. I'm still learning as i go and i haven't been going that long. Welcome to what i believe to be the best place to ask any leathercraft Question.

I'de love to see some of your work, please... OH come on...please LOL !!

[Johanna]

Latigo isn't meant to be dyed by the consumer/producer. The oils, waxes and dyes the tannery injects during the manufacture don't really allow much penetration of liquid dyes or conditioners. Latigo will seldom, if ever, bleed, even when soaking wet from water or sweat. Real latigo won't show "chips" or scratches, either, because the color is all the way though, unlike vegetable tanned leather. Latigo is stiffer and, though nice to look at, probably overkill for human restraints, and expensive if you get into commercial production.

Latigo is made in many colors, from gentle browns to reds to blacks. Siegels of California and Wickett & Craig will probably send you samples, if you ask. Latigo doesn't need "sealer" like Super Shene. Just watch your girlfriend's skin for irritation, as sweat can sometimes cause chemicals to leach out of the leather and cause a reaction (good advice, latigo or not!) Usually it's just itchy, but if the skin gets broken (from scratching, for example) infection may set in if the leather is exposed to raw skin. (Any leather, not just latigo.) The reason the Shene peeled is that the latigo leather can't absorb it like veggie tanned leather.

Regular veggie tanned leather is suitable for your purposes, and you may want to experiment for different effects. It is possible to stamp some hides of latigo, but difficult. If you do, prepare to wet it thouroughly, let it soak in, press it for a long time and still be unhappy with the results. Make sure any leather you choose is dampened and buffed smooth on the side that will touch her skin. Rub it with sheeps wool intil it shines and is smooth, then do it for another hour. Even better, line it with some soft sheepskin for comfort. Latigo won't stretch as much as veggie tanned, but vegetable leather won't stretch enough to matter. She's a woman, not a horse.

Okay, I'm taking the liberty of adding you to the "adult only" area because I don't want to say much more on the main board and risk offending someone. I'm looking forward to talking with you more, and there are some other folks here that know lots more than me and have better imaginations.

I'm not trying to discourage your posting at all, so please don't misunderstand. You sound like you've been at this long enough to understand discretion.

Johanna

[bruce johnson]

Johanna,

I mostly agree with you. A few things my experience differs. Although I don't make many things for human wear, can share a few things from the animal restraint side. Latigo will bleed, and some will bleed like the proverbial stuck pig - on and on. I have only used the red (burgundy) latigo, but the straps on a light colored horse will bleed off. Also just saddle soaping strings will bleed off the color. There is a strap used to tighten horn wraps on saddles - goes by few ethnic names as well as "choke strap". If you don't soap and rinse, soap and rinse, etc. a new one repeatedly, the strap will bleed burgundy all over your veg-tan horn cover. I have found this with latigo from the folks who taught leather craft to the world, the latigo from New Albany, St Louis, and Buellton. Haven't tried the Mt Hope folks' latigo, but suspect it will too. Some of the old-timers like Indian-tan latigo. It has a yellow center and tan to dark brown color outside. They say it doesn't bleed as much.

Also, most latigo today is not struck through. The color is about 2 oz deep. Splitting a 7/9 string down to 6 oz will get you into the gray or might still be pinkish. If you can use the thinner weights it is probably struck through. I have to redye the backs of most of my saddle strings.

I have gotten LeatherSheen (Feibing's version of SuperSheen) to stick and stay on most leathers - even Diamond Tan which is one of Siegel's slightly waxy chap leathers. I can do it and my friend can't. (?) Light coats with a sponge seem to be the key for me. I use that leather a lot on rope bag gussets, but have had to use 4/5 oz latigo at times, and the LS binds and stays there too.

Good point about the skin contact thing. A lot of concern out there about hypersensitivity. Siegels has a piece in their reference section on their website about chromium hypersensitivity. I see leather animal restraints on a daily basis, and cannot reliably pin very many skin problems on the leather. How many millions wear a leather watchband every day?

Faster way to slick backs is to use a slicker of some kind. I was taught to use cotton balls by one instructor - there is a time investment. I make my slickers out of a piece of LDPE cutting board quarter rounded off with a router. round off the corners too. A friend with a benchtop belt sander can do the same thing. Cleans the belt and makes a handy tool. Just dampen the leather and use the slicker like a squeegee. Forward strokes at about a 45 degree angle, a few passes and it is like glass. On latigo, sometimes a little paste like saddle soap or even wax will help to lay the fibers down.

Most latigo is slightly more elastic than "strap" sides. As it was explained to me, some tanneries vegtans have been rolled and compressed to make what they call strap sides. These are designed to have less stretch and be firmer. Tooling sides are not compressed, so they will be looser, easier to tool, and will mold easier and have more stretch than their strap leather counterparts. Some just have names, and it all comes form the same pile I suspect. I would suspect that latigo and tooling leather are pretty similar in stretch. My thoughts, If she looks like she can get away, just punch another hole.

Bruce Johnson

[Chitin]

Thanks for the help! I should have mentioned, these are mostly for fashion wear, but since they definitely COULD be used for more *ahem* private activities, I should probably take that into account.

This might be a silly question, but why isn't it meant to be dyed? I've so far had no problems getting the dye to sink in, though it sometimes requires a second coat. Also, if I wanted to replicate a similar buttery, weighty feel, what leather/oiling process would you suggest using? I've been experimenting with 10 oz skirting leather from Tandy and rubbing it thoroughly with neat's foot oil, but somehow it ends up less "substantial" feeling.

[pepin1948]

"Latigo will seldom, if ever, bleed, even when soaking wet from water or sweat."

Whew can my faire blouse prove that one wrong. I have a burgundy latigo bodice, and over time it has turned that region of my blouse a nice not-so-white color....

[Johanna]

Okay, some latigo will bleed, but the *better* brands bleed very little. Of course, I do not know the current market for latigo, because I haven't sold/bought latigo since...ummm...1998. Does Leather Balm w/ Atom Wax help? Or is another sealer more effective? Just curious.

Johanna

[pella]

I have latigo from Siegel, the santa Ynez veg-chrome retan and it seem to me it do not bleed a lot. It is a exceptional nice finish on the grain side, supple side, very nice I recommend

I also have a cheap "dry" veg tan hide from Tandy and it bleed and it is not good for saddlery, well for my purposes.

There is 2 kind of "latigo"...

The "real" latigo is the one very greasy and very supple, the one to use as strings and tie for saddles , this leather stretch and it is ok for that purpose

and there is the "dry" latigo use for dog leashes and many other applications but i dont use that leather.

Best thing to use on latigo is saddle soap...to care and also to burnish side the best we can...as it is a tricky leather ( i mean the greasy one...)

I find Fiebing yellow paste saddle soap is better than white paste for latigo...seem to hold/slick better

[pella]

i would like to add that veg tan leather is better for wrist cuff...no worry about bleeding and allergies, and will keep it shape longer. You can mold it to shape your arm.

I would never use chrome-veg latigo for anything that touch my skin.

[Johanna]

I'm allergic to veggie tanned leather. I get a nice rash, especially if I sweat. I have to wash my hands after I'm done handling the leather or I will itch. I use Leather Balm with Atom Wax on the back of stuff that will touch skin. Apply and buff. It makes the flesh side smooth, and keeps people with sensitive skin from reacting to whatever is in that leather that makes people like me break out with hives and rashes. I've never had a problem with latigo, but some commercial deerskin will affect me, too.

Johanna

[pella]

wow, didint know veg tan can cause allergies, thank you

the stuff you put on the backing is like sealer? i dont use them i only have acrylic resolene

But HOW do you work leather ?? if you are allergic??!! lOL

[pella]

maybe you react to the tanin? what kind of veg tan leather ??

oak? hemlock? other? sumac?

[ben77]

On 1/7/2007 at 3:20 PM, Chitin said:

Hi, I'm new here but I've been making leather wrist cuffs and collars for human wear for a while now. Lately I've been using 8-10 oz latigo and loving it, but I'm worried about a few things.

Firstly, I understand that latigo, like many chrome-tanned leathers, has a tendency for colors to run when wet. I use burgundy latigo and dye it (usually) black; I haven't had any issues personally with it, but as I put more items up for sale the danger of them damaging someone's expensive white shirt worries me. Is this a significant danger? This brings me to my next question...

Super Shene. I've tried coating the leather, with mixed results. There is one cuff that my girlfriend wears all the time; the laquer has begun to peel off of it. The thing is, I don't know if this is because it doesn't take well to the oily leather, or if I didn't wait for the dye to dry enough before I coated it. Both seem equally likely.

Finally, is there any reason why latigo seems to come only in burgundy and black? Siegel's and Hide House have other colors, but most sources just have those two. Next time I buy a side, I'm probably going to go with a tan so that I can dye it other colors. Is there any reason why I shouldn't? Would it be weaker or something?

Thanks so much for your help!

Hello Chitin, I’m just coming across your post now, as I am attempting an almost identical project to what you describe. My project is making a leather sleeve cuff with an outer layer as as embossed epi leather grain, and I’m hoping to make the inner layer a Latigo layer. I have been searching high and low on all websites that I can find for a sealant that fully coats the leather preventing any bleeding. as these sleeve cuffs will need to go in the wash repeatedly, I have been researching the properties of liquid latex, the same mixture used for FX make up on movie sets, and also used in latex fashion pieces of course. The reputation is it doesn’t break and never wears or bleeds. Since this post was made in 2007, I’m hoping you found the solution you are looking for. Which is most likely better than what I have found. Thanks again for your assistance. 
 

All the best 

Ben N