Eyeballing a Singer 51

[Calidora]

I've been using one of the Chinese shoe patchers for a while and I've come to realize that I need something else. I found a Singer 51 locally and the owner is willing to sell. They are asking $300 for the head table and clutch motor. What can I be expected to be able to work with on this machine. I normally make sheaths for knives I make at the forge, hats, and bags. Do y'all think this machine can handle this type of work? Thank you for your time. 

[Constabulary]

The 51w are post bed machines for the shoe trade and similar. They have drop feed and are using an rather "odd" needle system with thin shaft. But you can covert the needle bar so they can accommodate needles with 2mm shaft. There are also 2 types of 51w and early model and a later model.

Do you know more than just "51"? Maybe the subclass or do you have pictures?

 

[Calidora]

This is the only picture that I have. The badging is not visible 

[Constabulary]

poor picture but this is the later 2n type.Could be a 51w44.

Looks like on the thread tension unit some parts are missing or it is broke but they are still available (see picture below)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401111434437

Here is a manual for the machine.

Manual Singer 51W44.pdf

Edited November 10 by Constabulary

[Calidora]

10 hours ago, Constabulary said:

poor picture but this is the later 2n type.Could be a 51w44.

Looks like on the thread tension unit some parts are missing or it is broke but they are still available (see picture below)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401111434437

Here is a manual for the machine.

Manual Singer 51W44.pdf 569.76 kB · 0 downloads

Thank you very much for the info. What do you think, is the price good or too high for this machine. 

[Constabulary]

well from the outside it looks a bit beaten but that probably because of poor storage conditions but I do not know the condition of the timing belt and so forth. Are you sure this machine will suit your needs? This is not really a holster machine. As I said before it was designed for the shoe trade for sewing shoe upper / vamping and so forth.

How thick (overall thickness) do you want sew and with what thread thickness / needle size?

As mentioned before ex factory it is using a needle system with fairly thin shafts and you can probably get it to sew with 138 thread if the needle plate has a large enough hole but you most likely you have to convert the needle bar for using a common needle system like 135x16 and you need a new tension unit.  So expect to invest approx $50 or more in it for parts + some tinkering. Maybe new needle plate and feed dog and I´m not sure if the roller foot is ideal for your work. But you can convert that as well.... But it all takes parts, time and tinkering.

[Calidora]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

well from the outside it looks a bit beaten but that probably because of poor storage conditions but I do not know the condition of the timing belt and so forth. Are you sure this machine will suit your needs? This is not really a holster machine. As I said before it was designed for the shoe trade for sewing shoe upper / vamping and so forth.

How thick (overall thickness) do you want sew and with what thread thickness / needle size?

As mentioned before ex factory it is using a needle system with fairly thin shafts and you can probably get it to sew with 138 thread if the needle plate has a large enough hole but you most likely you have to convert the needle bar for using a common needle system like 135x16 and you need a new tension unit.  So expect to invest approx $50 or more in it for parts + some tinkering. Maybe new needle plate and feed dog and I´m not sure if the roller foot is ideal for your work. But you can convert that as well.... But it all takes parts, time and tinkering.

I mostly sew with leather on the thin side even the sheaths are not very thick. I've. Been able to manage with a Chinese shoe patcher. I'm rather good at tinkering and the parts if available will not be a problem for me to install. Other than the sheaths mostly work with bags and hats. The hats might be a bit thick for this machine though. From what you have told me this machine should be able to handle what in working with. 

[dikman]

While not the ideal machine for what you want to make it should work ok. Factor in the cost for a servo motor too, as unless you are quite skilled the clutch motor will be difficult to control. My 51w was my first machine and no matter what I did I couldn't control it until I fitted a servo and speed reducer! I don't use mine very much as my other machines are more suited to what I make but it's nice to have a post-bed machine (just-in-case).

[Calidora]

58 minutes ago, dikman said:

While not the ideal machine for what you want to make it should work ok. Factor in the cost for a servo motor too, as unless you are quite skilled the clutch motor will be difficult to control. My 51w was my first machine and no matter what I did I couldn't control it until I fitted a servo and speed reducer! I don't use mine very much as my other machines are more suited to what I make but it's nice to have a post-bed machine (just-in-case).

I was already looking into servo motors since I need one for my bell skiver I guess I could buy a couple. 

[Calidora]

Well, the guy seems to have changed their mind. They don't answer my calls, messages, or emails. I'll have to see but I guess I'll look for another machine. 

[dikman]

I guess it made the decision for you, but it's very annoying when they don't have the courtesy to at least answer! One of my pet peeves. 

[Calidora]

What are some machines that should look into. I'm trying for used machines since I'm on a tight budget. 3-400 would be the max

[Calidora]

15 hours ago, dikman said:

I guess it made the decision for you, but it's very annoying when they don't have the courtesy to at least answer! One of my pet peeves. 

Now I suspect they were trying to scam or something. Because they cut all communication as soon as I mentioned I was like 5 miles from their approximate location. It might have been one of those freight shipping scams and it won't work with someone this close to the location they said they were in. Just a guess though. At this point all I can do is speculate. 

[Calidora]

So they sent me an address. I'm going to see it tomorrow I'll take more pictures and try to test out functionality. 

[AlZilla]

4 hours ago, Calidora said:

So they sent me an address. I'm going to see it tomorrow I'll take more pictures and try to test out functionality. 

Why do people list things for sale and then act like they're doing potential buys a favor even responding?

[Calidora]

3 hours ago, AlZilla said:

Why do people list things for sale and then act like they're doing potential buys a favor even responding?

I don't know. Seems counter productive to post something for sale then ignore potential buyers. But I really don't know why they didn't respond. Maybe they had some form of emergency and were not able to do so. 

[Constabulary]

right, it is counter productive but you never know what is going on the other end so patience sometimes is a good advise. Life is more that just having something for sale now and then.

Good luck with the machine.

[AlZilla]

Humph ... You guys have a lot more patience than me. But hopefully it works out. It does look like a fun machine to own.

[Calidora]

So I went to see it today and it's a 51w54. 

The tension unit was there but off the machine in a box. (I might still get another because I don't know why it was removed in the first place.) It works great. I had forgotten to take sample leather to test it but when I got there they had a bunch of leather and thread that he previous owner was using to make boots. The seller said I can have all the leather working stuff with the machine. 

Now to shop for a servo motor. 

Edited November 14 by Calidora

[Calidora]

[Calidora]

Apparently I've reached the limit of attachments I can do for this post. I have other pictures but can't post them. 

[Northmount]

4 hours ago, Calidora said:

Apparently I've reached the limit of attachments I can do for this post. I have other pictures but can't post them. 

There is no limit that I am aware of.  I have seen posts/threads with many more attachments/photos than you have posted.  You should reduce your file sizes further.  800 pixels in the longest dimension is quite adequate.  Try again later.  There may be something else at play here with the device and or browser or ISP you are using.

[Calidora]

3 hours ago, Northmount said:

There is no limit that I am aware of.  I have seen posts/threads with many more attachments/photos than you have posted.  You should reduce your file sizes further.  800 pixels in the longest dimension is quite adequate.  Try again later.  There may be something else at play here with the device and or browser or ISP you are using.

I guess you are right. I got the option to post more now

[Calidora]

One of the back

 

Edit: Nope, still can't add attachments.

Edited November 14 by Calidora
Couldn't post pics?

[dikman]

Glad it worked out for you. $300 for a post-bed machine is pretty good, particularly as they don't appear to be very common unlike flat-beds or cylinder arms.