anybody here use the holster needle plate for an Artisan or Juki?

[Regis]

Does anybody here use the holster needle plate for an Artisan or Juki? If you do, where/how does it help?

Thanks,

Regis

[Art]

Hi Regis,

It comes in handy when sewing up close to something that bulges. Like if you want to outline up close to the gun on a holster. Also good to have a right side outer foot to go with it. Basically, you use it when you have something that won't lay flat on the standard needle plate. Remember that you will lose some thickness capability using one of these, which is one of the reasons to have a LARGE machine for holster work. If you have over an inch of lift and can sew 7/8 to 1" thick, losing 3/8 inch to a holster plate isn't usually a big bother. Sometimes you will have to make presser foot adjustments to compensate, but it is not a big deal. Sometimes you have to take a file to it and make it a little smaller, here again no big deal. Needle plates are a little pricey so don't buy it to let it lay around in the drawer.

Art

Does anybody here use the holster needle plate for an Artisan or Juki? If you do, where/how does it help?

Thanks,

Regis

[esantoro]

Are there any special tweaks to increase the presser foot lift on the juki 441 clones? I'm also about to get a stirrup/corner plate and was thinking I'd use the narrow harness maker's foot with it.

ed

[bruce johnson]

Regis,

I use mine several times a week. In fact I think I spend as much time changing feet and plates as as I do sewing. Another reason to keep the second 2000 and set them each up differently. I use the holster plate whenever I am sewing gussets into firm leather, like on saddles bags and purses or zippered gussets into dayplanners. It allows the work to be up and provides an area for the gusset to stand up and and sew tight. Anyone who has ever NOT sewn across a wrinkle on a gusset corner can leave now. Since we are all still here, that is what I use it for.

I also use the stirrup plate for this too. The holster plate is flat across the top and both sides of the slot are the same width. The flat top makes it more stable for long runs with no sewing into a bend. The stirrup plate is rounded across the top and will make a sharper corner. It will reduce the turning radius and let me sew tighter corners in 3/4 gusseted things like purses, shaving kits, and briefcases. It also has a narrower lip to the left of the slot. That lets me get closer to the wood on sewn stirrups, and sharper gussets also.

[TimberWolf]

Art, Bruce,...would you recommend it for tack work? What is the best needle plate/presser foot for getting in close to halter 'D's and breast collar rings? Right now, I only have the plate and foot that came on my 3000. Thanks,

Tim

[bruce johnson]

Tim,

You just asked me about the one foot setup I got with the "saddler's package" and have not used. I have the harness maker's presser foot and have never hooked it on. It is supposed to be for sewing close to buckles and hardware. I put full or tapered fillers in my breast collars, bronc halters, and other straps that are about the same thickness as the ring. There is no lump from the ring and I can sew as close to the end of the filler as I need to. I just use my double toe and normal middle foot, or a single toe and foot setup. I use the normal flat slotted plate. Even doing a repair on something with no filler, I can get close enough backing up. There is enough lift on the walking feet and presser foot to get close enough. If I need to get closer in to a #5705 type buckle I use the holster plate. That raises up the work enough I can tip the buckle back more out of the way.

If you are anticipating doing different sewing applications, it might pay to look into getting the package of feet, plates, and guides. If they can price out the package well enough might be cheaper than buying a couple sets of feet individually. I never thought I would use the blanket feet (I have) and would have thought I probably should have played with the harness foot before now I guess. I use both the single and double roller edge guides a fair amount too. One thing about getting the attachments, the 441 clones show no signs of going away. You never know what your next machine will be, and all these should pretty well fit most of them. If not, there is someone out there who wants the foot you don't. After the Christmas orders, I will play with the harness foot and see what it does.

Ed,

With my stirrup plate I use the right toe toe foot and the narrow center presser foot. On my newer 2000, the double toe foot uses a wider center foot than the R/L feet. I don't know how universal that is from one seller to the next. If I use the double toe and the wide center foot, the walking feet are just barely on the right edge of the plate, and not on the left at all. They can push down, walk off, and twist the work and I sew crooked. The narrow center foot and the R foot will walk on the right lip. On the used Juki 2000 (from Ferdco originally too), the stirrup plate has a little wider ridge on the left than the new one, and not sure how it compares on the right.

[TimberWolf]

Bruce, Thanks for the reply! I will try a filler strip on my next breast collar. Guess I should go ahead and get some other presser feet too.

Tim

Edited December 15, 2007 by TimberWolf

[esantoro]

Regis,

I use mine several times a week. In fact I think I spend as much time changing feet and plates as as I do sewing. Another reason to keep the second 2000 and set them each up differently. I use the holster plate whenever I am sewing gussets into firm leather, like on saddles bags and purses or zippered gussets into dayplanners. It allows the work to be up and provides an area for the gusset to stand up and and sew tight. Anyone who has ever NOT sewn across a wrinkle on a gusset corner can leave now. Since we are all still here, that is what I use it for.

I also use the stirrup plate for this too. The holster plate is flat across the top and both sides of the slot are the same width. The flat top makes it more stable for long runs with no sewing into a bend. The stirrup plate is rounded across the top and will make a sharper corner. It will reduce the turning radius and let me sew tighter corners in 3/4 gusseted things like purses, shaving kits, and briefcases. It also has a narrower lip to the left of the slot. That lets me get closer to the wood on sewn stirrups, and sharper gussets also.

Hi Bruce,

I just got my needle plates in today: stirrup, holster, and flat slotted.

Do you have to change the constant height of the presser foot when changing from a raised needle plate to a flat plate, or have you found a happy medium? HAve you also been able to use the roller guide with the raised plates? I think I've already asked you this and you said that you don't use a guide but just go slowly and follow your stitch line. I'm thinking of getting some spacers and longer screws to raise the roller guide 1/8" to 1/4" if needed.

By the way, do you know of a good source for screws for the needle plates and the roller guide?

Rather than post a new topic, I'll give a run down of all my questions and concerns regarding these plates :

1. They are made of stainless steel, instead of the steel (attracted to a magnet) used in the nylon plate that came standard with the machine.

2. It seems that these plates are all made from similar molds (and made in China?), but is there a reason that everyone seems to be leaving out the lube hole on the stirrup plate?

3. The flat/low profile feed dog/needle guide necessary for these needle plates just barely skims the underside of the flat slotted plate and the stirrup plate. Should I ignore this, or should I start getting more familiar with my Dremel?

4. It seems that a bit of grinding might be necessary on the far right side of the flat slotted plate, so that it can be positioned in a way that the needle will enter the slot as much as possible in the center of the slot and not more towards the right edge. There's no real worry of screwing anything up because the screw holes allow for some repositioning of the plate.

5. Though not of tremendous importance, I'd like to pick up some bolts that fit more flushly in the screw holes in these plates.

Ryan Neel and Neel's Saddlery in Ohio has always been very helpful. I bought these plates from him for $100 apiece.

Ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I have never had to change the presser foot height on mine when I change plates. Your setup with the Neel machine is pretty different than mine, so you might need to. My edge guide is also way different than yours. The Ferdco guides are not a low profile guide, but I usually am sewing with a right foot with the stirrup plate, and that does limit the effectiveness of the edge guide. I am usually sewing closer than the the foot width. Your feed dog system on the Neel and mine on the Ferdco are way different. Mine is smooth and has a diamond-shaped hole to bring the needle into line as it passes the hook. It does not skim the throat plate. My slots line up on all the plates the way they came, so I never had to mess with them either. The screws for my plates are pretty thin headed. If you can't find them at a decent hardware store, the sewing machine folks can ship them to you. Surprising how many screws and bolts can be bought at the local hardware store.

Regarding your question in another thread about your feed dog coming up through the slot in the throat plate, that is very reminiscent of my Adler 205-64. I think you will have to change settings to go with a new setup. FWIW, I liked my Adler a lot. I am happier with two 2000s sitting here than one 2000 and the Adler. I would set it up with the smooth plates and leave it. The one thing we have in common is that my raised plates don't have that center oil hole either - never noticed until you brought it up.

Your current setup is so different than mine, and I think talking to Ryan and seeing what he says about heights and grinding would be prudent. As an aside, my 2000 is pretty similar to the way Artisan sets them up. You can download the manuals off Artisan's website.

Happy Holidays,

[esantoro]

Ed,

I have never had to change the presser foot height on mine when I change plates. Your setup with the Neel machine is pretty different than mine, so you might need to. My edge guide is also way different than yours. The Ferdco guides are not a low profile guide, but I usually am sewing with a right foot with the stirrup plate, and that does limit the effectiveness of the edge guide. I am usually sewing closer than the the foot width. Your feed dog system on the Neel and mine on the Ferdco are way different. Mine is smooth and has a diamond-shaped hole to bring the needle into line as it passes the hook. It does not skim the throat plate. My slots line up on all the plates the way they came, so I never had to mess with them either. The screws for my plates are pretty thin headed. If you can't find them at a decent hardware store, the sewing machine folks can ship them to you. Surprising how many screws and bolts can be bought at the local hardware store.

Regarding your question in another thread about your feed dog coming up through the slot in the throat plate, that is very reminiscent of my Adler 205-64. I think you will have to change settings to go with a new setup. FWIW, I liked my Adler a lot. I am happier with two 2000s sitting here than one 2000 and the Adler. I would set it up with the smooth plates and leave it. The one thing we have in common is that my raised plates don't have that center oil hole either - never noticed until you brought it up.

Your current setup is so different than mine, and I think talking to Ryan and seeing what he says about heights and grinding would be prudent. As an aside, my 2000 is pretty similar to the way Artisan sets them up. You can download the manuals off Artisan's website.

Happy Holidays,

I don't think our two setups are that different. Mine came with a needle plate and feed dog that Ferdco calls a Nylon needle plate and feed dog (feed dog protrudes through needle plate and touches the leather, leaving light tracks). That is the needle plate and feed dog I changed today. I now have the flat slotted plate, which I think comes standard on Ferdco's machine, the stirrup plate , and the holster plate.

A hair sliver of grinding may be necessary on a couple of spots. As it is, the new feed dog ever so slightly grazes the bottom of the stirrup plate and flat slotted plate. If it's a problem I'll take the dremel to the underside of the plates.

What seems strange is that using the new set up seems to require less bobbin thread tension....more experimentation.

It's not a problem to drill a lube hole in the stirrup plate. It's just funny that everyone copies the same plate without noticing the hole is missing.

I've seen Ferdco's feed dog for this set up, but don't understand how the diamond shaped slot in it can guide the needle anywhere unless it actually touches the needle at some point. The new feed dog I have has an oval slot maybe a tad bigger than the slot in the nylon feed dog.

I may not need to change the presser foot height. There is 1.105" of clearance with the flat slotted plate. With the holster plate, there is .597" of clearance. If I need more, I will have to change the constant height of the presser foot. The clearance with the holster plate is .778". I think I'm good.

Thanks,

Ed

[bruce johnson]

Ed,

I see, said the guy who didn't read closely. I missed the part about you changing the feed dog too. I was visualizing my Adler's toothed feeddog beating on the bottom of a slotted throat plate. You might need to grind a bit off, or if it has the elongated screw hole like a toothed feed dog, just lower it more.

It is strange that it seems to require less bobbin tension. You would think the pull of the takeup arms and tensioners on top and the bobbin tension on the bottom shouldn't change. Listen to what the machine is telling you it wants, it doesn't always read the "book".

I don't see a big difference between the oval or diamond hole in the smooth feeddog on the 441s. Biggest problem I had with the Adler was the smaller round hole in the feeddog. The 205-64 doesn't have a lower needle guide and the needles will deflect on some hard leather or following old needle holes in curled leather. When I used a bigger needle and it deflected even slightly, it missed the hole, made a spectacular sound as the needle snapped, and sent you looking for the end. I had been forwarned of that happening, and heard the stories of not finding the needle end. It rolls around in the race, makiing grooves in something that ain't supposed to be. It can also bend or break feed dogs, so that needed to be checked too.

Regarding the oil hole, mine get changed enough that oil spot gets hit.

[esantoro]

All I needed was the stirrup plate for gusset corners and the flat slotted plate for everything else. I got the holster plate thinking I could compromise if I had to and leave it on for everything. I figure if I can raise the material guide, which I really like, just 1/4" with spacers (off to home depot Wednesday), I'm back in business.

Right now I'm using the narrow harness makers foot with the holster plate...making some progress. The only rt and lt toes I have are sawed off mods of the blanket foot that came standard with the machine. No can do there...will have to get normal rt and lt toes with narrow center foot. I'll post pics of everything later.

At least for my applications, the raised portion of these needle plates could be 1/16" to 1/8" lower, as I figure one would want to save as much presser foot clearance as possible.

Writing down my experimentation helps me work through the kinks. Thanks for listening.

ed

[esantoro]

Well, my dremel and I have become more intimately acquainted over the past two hours. All is well with the stirrup plate, the for the flat slotted plate I need to grind off a bit of the bottom of the feed dog..................

......................Then it occurred to me, do I even need this feed dog? As long as the needle makes it into the slot of the flat needle plate it should be oriented fine. I remember hearing once that these walking foot machines work fine without that feed dog.

Ed

[esantoro]

And after more hours of experimentation with the new needle plates and passive feed dog, she's behavin' like a different woman. It's like I've got to get to know her all over again.

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

You can just take the feed dogs off, they don't do anything but what feed dogs do. My 4000P came without dogs installed, but I got a set included with the blanket foot system which I install when Rose does elevator blankets; I remove it when going back but it could be left in and lowered if you like the idea of a lower needle guide (the hole in the feed dog for the needle). Personally, I don't think it is necessary as there is always a chance of missing it (and I'd rather skip a stitch than break a needle). So if you leave it in and lowered, make sure it is lined-up properly.

Happy Holidays,

Art

Well, my dremel and I have become more intimately acquainted over the past two hours. All is well with the stirrup plate, the for the flat slotted plate I need to grind off a bit of the bottom of the feed dog..................

......................Then it occurred to me, do I even need this feed dog? As long as the needle makes it into the slot of the flat needle plate it should be oriented fine. I remember hearing once that these walking foot machines work fine without that feed dog.

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Art,

I think I'm going to try without the dog.

On another note, last night I had one needle crash into the flat slotted plate and break. If I run into problems with the needle crashing on any of these needle plates, I think Ill try widening the needle slot in the plate, mainly to the right side. Do you forsee any problems in doing this?

Does it also make sense that there would be a difference in spi, tension, and general stitch look when going from the blanket/nylon needle plate/feed dog setup to these slotted/passive feed dog setups? With the blanket/nylon set up, I really didn't have to push the leather through, as the feed dog did help out in that respect. With these slotted needle plates/passive feed dog setups, I seem to have to nudge the leather ever so slightly, the thicker the leather the less I need to nudge it.

Are all of your plates from Artisan, or do you have any from Ferdco?

Thanks and best wishes during the holidays,

Ed

Hi Ed,

You can just take the feed dogs off, they don't do anything but what feed dogs do. My 4000P came without dogs installed, but I got a set included with the blanket foot system which I install when Rose does elevator blankets; I remove it when going back but it could be left in and lowered if you like the idea of a lower needle guide (the hole in the feed dog for the needle). Personally, I don't think it is necessary as there is always a chance of missing it (and I'd rather skip a stitch than break a needle). So if you leave it in and lowered, make sure it is lined-up properly.

Happy Holidays,

Art

[esantoro]

After looking more closely at Ferdco's and Artisan's raised needle plates, I came to the conclusion that the original maker of these plates must have had the same understanding bruce has. Any plate that is meant to stay installed for a long period of time, flat plate and holster plate (though ferdco's and artisan's holster plate don't seem to have the hole), will have the lube hole. THe stirrup plate, on the other hand, doesn't have a hole because it isn't meant to stay on the machine that long. .

That said, I really like the holster plate. Because of its plateaued stitching surface, I can, as Bruce has mentioned elsewhere, stitch for long sections and many applications without having to switch to the slotted flat plate.

One last thing: It seems if there is ever any needle deflection, it will happen on the right side of the slot of any of the needle plates, and possibly the lower passive feed dog/needle guide, if installed. Would there be any drawback to widening this area on the needle plates and feed dog by about 1/16"?

Thanks again to everyone who talked me into getting a dremel, which, in my opinion, should come standard with all heavy stitcers that have an array of attachments.

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

Needle strikes are caused a lot by the leather moving under the foot or the foot raising before the needle gets through the needle plate hole. I am not sure I would go making the hole larger before seeing if some other fix is necessary like increasing pressure foot spring pressure, checking the foot timing, etc.

Art

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Needle strikes are caused a lot by the leather moving under the foot or the foot raising before the needle gets through the needle plate hole. I am not sure I would go making the hole larger before seeing if some other fix is necessary like increasing pressure foot spring pressure, checking the foot timing, etc.

Art

Hi Art,

Thanks for pointing out these other issues to be aware of. Often I ask questions anticipating certain issues not currently a big problem, and sometimes I like to fix things that don't need fixing.

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

If you like to tinker, get a machine to fix up. On the production stuff, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Art

Hi Art,

Thanks for pointing out these other issues to be aware of. Often I ask questions anticipating certain issues not currently a big problem, and sometimes I like to fix things that don't need fixing.

Ed

[esantoro]

Hi Art,

I have still yet to try running my machine without the lower needle guide, but i just wanted to make sure that when you wrote earlier about the 4000p coming without dogs installed that you also meant no lower needle guide as well.

One thing that gets me about Ferdco's lower needle guide is that from their website's pictures at least it seems that so much metal is cut out of the guide for the needle to enter that you might as well run the machine without it.

Thanks and best wishes for the new year,

ed

Hi Ed,

You can just take the feed dogs off, they don't do anything but what feed dogs do. My 4000P came without dogs installed, but I got a set included with the blanket foot system which I install when Rose does elevator blankets; I remove it when going back but it could be left in and lowered if you like the idea of a lower needle guide (the hole in the feed dog for the needle). Personally, I don't think it is necessary as there is always a chance of missing it (and I'd rather skip a stitch than break a needle). So if you leave it in and lowered, make sure it is lined-up properly.

Happy Holidays,

Art

[tonyc1]

Hi Ed, can you tell me what Ferdie's web address is please. Kind regards, Tony.

[esantoro]

Hi Ed, can you tell me what Ferdie's web address is please. Kind regards, Tony.

Hi Tony,

Here's a link that takes you directly to the attachments for the 441 clones:

http://www.ferdco.com/11.php

ed