the black keeps coming off the seat

[Guest]

Hey all,

I have a problem with crocking on one of my previous seats.....the seat is black of course....I've deglazed it 5 or 6 times and the black keeps coming off. LOTS OF IT! I've rubbed the seat down with DNA and deglazer .... This is the second time the seat has come back for this problem. The first time a brief deglazing and new atom wax stopped the problem....but now it has started again.

I've even tried all my OWN advice on this one.....lol

Somebody help me!

Dave Theobald

[Art]

Hi Dave,

Well, having them wear black pants and chaps might help a little. I guess some form of acrylic to seal it up, like saddle lac, but that stuff is slick. The deglazer will remove the finish, but not the dye. You will need some form of nonporous sealer, anything that breaths will let the dye through. I've had drum dyed stuff crock occasionally, guess it just happens. You might want to ask Dave Genedek what to do, he used to work for Dyo.

Art

Hey all,

I have a problem with crocking on one of my previous seats.....the seat is black of course....I've deglazed it 5 or 6 times and the black keeps coming off. LOTS OF IT! I've rubbed the seat down with DNA and deglazer .... This is the second time the seat has come back for this problem. The first time a brief deglazing and new atom wax stopped the problem....but now it has started again.

I've even tried all my OWN advice on this one.....lol

Somebody help me!

Dave Theobald

[whinewine]

Perhaps buff the hell out of it, maybe with one of the buffers made for polishing cars, or some other sort of motorized buffer that doesn't run too fast (& burns the leather). Try spraying with water (very lightly) as you're buffing. This sometimes seals the pores (like spit shining). It's worth a try. Crocking is a main reason I stay away from black if at all possible. Good luck on this one.

[Luke Hatley]

DAVID .... JUST A THOUGHT, FROM WAY OUT LEFT FIELD.

IS THIS THE SAME DYE FROM THE SAME BOTTLE THAT YOU HAVE

USED ON OTHER SEATS. HAS THE CAP BEEN LEFT OFF THE BOTTLE FOR A LONG TIME.

HAS THE BOTTLE OF BLACK DYE BEEN SHAKEN OR STIRED BEFORE

YOU START USEING IT ?

[Randy Cornelius]

OK the first rule with black is don't use it. I try and steer everyone away from black because of this problem.

If you have to use it dye it blue first then come back with the black. That is an old trick that an old saddlemaker told me. I have used it with limited results. Buff it really good. I then come back with a light coat of oil and let it dry overnight. The oil will let the black soak in deeper so as to not rub off. Then buff again with a clean white cotten cloth. If it comes off black keep rubbing. I like to seal with Neat Lac but that is slick as mentioned before.

What type of black are you using. I use fieblings oil dye. I have had the best luck with it. Other dyes just don't work as well.

I have even tried clear spray wood sealer. But don't know about a seat that has to flex a lot.

Good luck with this one.

[Guest]

wow I thought this question would get a million responses.....

So far I like Randy's first rule the best.

This should answer both Randy and Luke. This is the ONLY seat where I've used Fiebings Oil Dye. The crocking started instantly. The dye went in the trash. This seat probably had 10 coats of atom wax.....eventually they all wore off and the crocking started again. Last night I used Neat Lac on it....after deglazing it a rubbing my arm numb with DNA. It seems to work.....kind of shiney but I buffed it dull with ..... shhhhhh don't tell anyone.....steel wool. Anyway, three coats of Neat Lac later, it seems to have stopped crocking..... will this stuff wear off too or has it soaked into the leather to stop it permanently?

Dave

[ClayB]

I like to use Neat Lac, but you have to be careful how you put it on. I use it out of a can and rub it in really well with a piece of sheep wool. I was told once that you are NOT supposed to use multiple coats of it, letting them dry in between. I was told you can do a second (or third) coat but do them before the first coat dries. I think that it needs to soak in and once dry, the following coat doesn't so can crack off. I have never put more on once it was dry and dont have a problem with cracking. Just thought I would throw that out there. I also don't dye black. Hope you figure this out David. It really sucks when coloring goes bad.

[Guest]

Hey Clay,

Thanks for weighing in on this one.

I rubbed the first coat in and the result was very streaky....shiney here, dull there....a second coat was better but showed a few dull areas......third coat seems ok....it was dry between coats......well I waited about 20-30 minutes so maybe not TOTALLY dry. The seat looked like patent leather so I dulled it a bit with steel wool.....very fine of course. The crocking has stopped the seat still compresses (compressing the foam with my fingers....it doesn't crack.... SO all is good so far. I've done a LOT of black seats, I wonder what happened here? My Tandy manager says that the oil stain is more prone to crocking than the spirit dye.....who knows at this point. IT JUST STINKS. To top it off the seat was a gift from me to Jeff Cochran..... then it ruins about three pairs of his jeans..... I'm sure he LOVES my present. I hope the Eco stuff solves it.

Dave Theobald

Edited December 18, 2007 by David

[tonyc1]

Good morning everybody. I'd like to know what "crocking" is?

[Art]

Hi Tony,

It is when the leather drinks up all the spirit dye, gets crocked, and barfs it onto everything it touches. It doesn't bleed the dye, it rubs off dry.

Art

Good morning everybody. I'd like to know what "crocking" is?

[Guest]

Hey Tony,

That is pretty much a description of crocking.....it only happens on black....the color will rub off on everything. Jeff Cochran will not let me live down the 3 pairs of jeans that my seat ruined.

Felt really bad about that.

Dave

[Art]

Hi Dave,

Have him dye the jeans black, better than going around looking like you sat in grease. Black is not the only color to crock, ask Steve Siegel, he had a whole shipment of burgundy drum dyed that he sold for nothing. Lighter colors you don't notice, but the darker colors are dead giveaways when they crock.

Around here, Black Denim is all the rage.

Art

Hey Tony,

That is pretty much a description of crocking.....it only happens on black....the color will rub off on everything. Jeff Cochran will not let me live down the 3 pairs of jeans that my seat ruined.

Felt really bad about that.

Dave

[wolvenstien]

Hell, I have 10 pairs of black jeans....

[Luke Hatley]

DAVID, still thinking about the black dye..

I did work in a saddle manufacturing shop.".TUCKER TRAIL SADDLES"

for about 2years. We did dye saddles Black

and there was never any rub off of the black dye.

The dye we used came from Weavers, If you

wanted to get to the bottom of this problem, I think

Paul Weaver would be of great help... IMHO

''WHAT WE HAVE ARE PROBLEMS

WHAT WE WANT OR SOLUTIONS"