Stitching Question

[Gridix]

Beehive,

 

Yes I am realizing all the things you just mentioned, but it doesn't discourage me at all! I have always loved the process of creating. My main hobby has always been cooking and I love putting in the extra effort of making everything from scratch and enjoying the process. It is simply that I have not had much experience with leather yet to fully appreciate the labor involved. As I watch videos online to see how things are made and to learn proper techniques, I do realize that they are not showing the entire process and they are making it seem "perfect" and easy. What they don't show are the things I am asking about and how to overcome them. So I am so glad that this forum exists for me to have a platform to soak in the knownledge from others who have already gone through some of these learning hurdles. 

As far as the tools, I just wanted to make sure I was not shooting myself in the foot so to speak by buying the cheapest tools to try out leatherworking. So many times in other projects when I would try cheaper tools it would make the job miserable.

 

Thank you so much for the great information and tips.

 

[fredk]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

I often punch my stitching holes on a slab of old wax. I just melt candles, odorless ones, in an old pan and and let it cool. This makes a good base and the chisel ends go into the wax and slip out smoothly. Whenever the wax gets too rough on the surface, just melt and cool again. This is usually on thicker leathers or multi layered ones.

Moi aussi

I recently made me a bigger and deeper slab

[Beehive]

17 minutes ago, Gridix said:

Beehive,

 

Yes I am realizing all the things you just mentioned, but it doesn't discourage me at all! I have always loved the process of creating. My main hobby has always been cooking and I love putting in the extra effort of making everything from scratch and enjoying the process. It is simply that I have not had much experience with leather yet to fully appreciate the labor involved. As I watch videos online to see how things are made and to learn proper techniques, I do realize that they are not showing the entire process and they are making it seem "perfect" and easy. What they don't show are the things I am asking about and how to overcome them. So I am so glad that this forum exists for me to have a platform to soak in the knownledge from others who have already gone through some of these learning hurdles. 

As far as the tools, I just wanted to make sure I was not shooting myself in the foot so to speak by buying the cheapest tools to try out leatherworking. So many times in other projects when I would try cheaper tools it would make the job miserable.

 

Thank you so much for the great information and tips.

 

 

Not too many people can say they're wearing their accomplishment. There's no better feeling after you're done. Belts and bags are on top of the pyramid. Saddle on the tippy top. But once you're done with the marathon stuff. Stitching holsters, wallets, and book covers seem a breeze. 

Never give up. Work through it. Move forward. Even if takes you months doing a few inches of stitching a day. 

You're in a club where nobody is wearing Chinese leather off of Amazon. None of that $65 for a mass produced belt nonsense. Your days are now going to be full of quality. Real deal, handmade quality. 

[Northmount]

Moved to sewing leather. 

If you haven't checked out this thread, take a look at it.

 

[DJole]

On 1/27/2025 at 6:05 AM, Gridix said:

Whenever I stitch, my needle gets stuck when it gets to the thread. Is this due to the chisels im using or could it be due to the size of the needle thread?
It seems when I watch others sew on youtube that their needle/thread goes right through no problem.

It really makes a difference to match the thread and needle and hole size. 
I found this diagram somewhere, copied it down, and let me put it here, too

John James Needle
size		Length	Outside diameter	Ritza “Tiger” thread	LIN Cable
4	004	48 mm	.9mm	0.6	532/632/832
2	002	54	1	0.8	432/332
0	1/0	57	1.1	1
00	2/0	57	1.3	1.2
000	3/0	62	1.6

What is the table telling me?

If I am using 3mm stitching irons on my thinner leather project, the best results are using a 004 needle, with the corresponding thread. 
If I am using a thicker thread (like those Maine threads), then try a 1/0 or 2/0 needle, with a larger stitching iron (5mm works well, 4 maybe)

I used to have that similar problem until I figured it out. 
So you should get a few packages of needles (they're not expensive, after all) to match your thread sizes, and using a stitching iron to match. 
I have a set of 3mm and 5 mm diamond (Japanese style) stitching chisels, which are my go-to sizes. 
I have a set of 4mm stitching irons (French or slit style), too. 
I have a few remaining Tandy "Big Eye" needles, which I keep around for nostalgia. ;-)

[Beehive]

Using the French style irons. You can adjust the size of the hole. Depending on leather thickness. Hammering it through 5-6mm thickness. Leather weight that requires a bigger diameter thread. It'll do it. 

Thinner weight like 4-5oz. The wedge shape does the same. It'll make the correct sized hole. 

As for needle size. The maker can recommend anything they want. Their job is to sell you needles. Giving a general guild line.

But since this is all custom. If I use a 004 needle with any thread that fit through the eye. Even though it'll make the stitch line look like a one hour craft class. I promise, nobody is going to show up at your door to slap your hand. 

Consider the John James range. Both a 002 needle and a 1/0 needle can be used with 1mm thread. By their own words. I take that as a guild line. Whatever works for You. Whatever will get the job done. Whatever will lay the best looking stitch. 

[Gridix]

On 1/28/2025 at 9:08 AM, SUP said:

I often punch my stitching holes on a slab of old wax. I just melt candles, odorless ones, in an old pan and and let it cool. This makes a good base and the chisel ends go into the wax and slip out smoothly. Whenever the wax gets too rough on the surface, just melt and cool again. This is usually on thicker leathers or multi layered ones.

So you are saying that you literally lay your item on the wax and punch right into the way like a rubber punch pad or something like that ?

[fredk]

yes, exactly that

here's a boring photo of my wax block

A 150mm/6 inch ruler laid on it

Edited January 29 by fredk

[SUP]

I do exactly that. I got the idea from @fredk and I think @Sheilajeanne said she used the same too.

Sometimes, I put a sheet of paper in between the wax and the leather to prevent sundry wax particles from sticking onto the flesh side of the leather.

 

[Sheilajeanne]

Sup, it was Fred, not me. I use a thick piece of belly leather to punch into after a plastic cutting board damaged my stitching irons.

When stitching, the only thing I use wax for is beeswax to keep fake sinew thread from separating. 

[Beehive]

I prefer the thick vinyl laying on top a block of granite. I've used a few various surfaces. I find the Weaver poundo pad to be way too soft. You're not supposed to hammer into poly unless it's a cheapo hole punch. 

Only issue with the vinyl pads. They come with sharp edges and corners. Leather hanging off the side will and does get gouged. 150grit sandpaper to the rescue. Now, every side and corner is smooth. 

Stitched one pocket of the book cover. I used cigar color for thread. It goes nicely with the brown. Only took me about an hour and 30minutes to complete the stitch. 3.85mm spacing. .080 mm diameter. 002 needle. 

I need to take a break and build me another stitching pony. I need one with a deeper throat then the other two I have. I have some ash lumber laying around. I also need to make four conchos. 

All in good time. No rush at all. 

[SUP]

@Sheilajeanne Oops! I remember it was @fredk But I thought there was a second person who mentioned it too and I thought it was you. Maybe I'm wrong and I got some other idea from two people...... Anyway,  It is very convenient. Great idea @fredk. Thank you for sharing. I use it all the time.

Sometimes I also use thick pads of leather splits. I got a few from Springfield Leather that are very thick. I flatten them and cut them to different sizes as I need. They work well. As they get holey, they get a bit limp and I discard them. They are inexpensive and easy to make. I use these for the thinner leathers.

Mainly though, I user well waxed thread - was looking up making coad today. Fun to do and I can wax my thread to the extent that I want. I do not much like Ritza... I know that goes against popular opinion but it appears to be too much a price for a product that I do not think is worth it. They also do not have as many colors as I would like. But then, maybe it is needed for the items that I do not make.

Edited February 5 by SUP

[toxo]

I think @Beehive is the only one that mentioned that some irons/chisels are wedge shaped. The harder you hit em the bigger the hole.

As far as waxing the tips, any wax will do, I've even used a block of soap. Running a thin piece along the stitch line is better than stabbing wax although using both ain't gonna hurt. An invention thought just popped into my head (happens all the time). What if you melted the wax and poured it into one of those little bottles with the tiny metal spout they us for paint and then drew it along the stitch line or better yet stitch groove?

My mother never bred no fool!

[fredk]

21 minutes ago, toxo said:

. . . An invention thought just popped into my head (happens all the time). What if you melted the wax and poured it into one of those little bottles with the tiny metal spout they us for paint and then drew it along the stitch line or better yet stitch groove?

And how do you keep it soft or liquid enuf to come out the wee spout?

Just asking for a friend, 

Edited February 6 by fredk

[toxo]

3 hours ago, fredk said:

And how do you keep it soft or liquid enuf to come out the wee spout?

Just asking for a friend, 

I think you're clever enough to work that out Fred. How do you keep your glazing iron hot? Heat pad maybe?  How long does it need to stay liquid for? Some waxes are thinner than others when liquid. Maybe a slightly bigger spout? Takes seconds to run a stitch line and it doesn't matter if it hardens once in place.

[SUP]

@toxo why noy make a brick of coad and rub that along the stitching line or run your thread through it before stitching? You can make it as hard or soft or sticky as you like. Punching on wax helps the chisel slip out of the leather easier. Coad on thread might help as well, getting onto the 2nd needle through a stitching hole, the first going through a clean hole and pulling the waxed thread behind it, and waxing the stitching hole enough to wax the 2nd needle.

This site has plenty of information on coad, only not easily available right now as the site recovers from last week's hack attack. You could buy it but where' the fun in that?

Search on google for 'coad wax' though and the first item you see is the thread on this site from 2016, with a good recipe. 

 

[toxo]

35 minutes ago, SUP said:

@toxo why noy make a brick of coad and rub that along the stitching line or run your thread through it before stitching? You can make it as hard or soft or sticky as you like. Punching on wax helps the chisel slip out of the leather easier. Coad on thread might help as well, getting onto the 2nd needle through a stitching hole, the first going through a clean hole and pulling the waxed thread behind it, and waxing the stitching hole enough to wax the 2nd needle.

This site has plenty of information on coad, only not easily available right now as the site recovers from last week's hack attack. You could buy it but where' the fun in that?

Search on google for 'coad wax' though and the first item you see is the thread on this site from 2016, with a good recipe. 

 

This is not about the thread SUP. It's about pulling chisels out of leather after punching. I don't do much hand sewing these days but when I did I did use both methods to make the pulling easier. Rubbing a bar along the stitch line is fine on a paper pattern before punching but doing it on the actual leather may interfere with whatever finish you want to put on. What I'm talking about above is just a way to contain the wax to where it's actually needed in a very thin line thus negating the need for any other waxing.

[SUP]

Oh. Okay. I'm lazy, I'm afraid. So I'll stick to the wax block until someone enterprising, like you () comes up with a good recipe for making that wax in a bottle and shares it.  However, if I don't use the wax block, I have the headache of needing to cut more splits, more frequently. Melting and hardening wax is infinitely easier than  doing that. It also is the safest for the tips of my chisels. I have never ever punched right through the wax block. 

 

 

[Beehive]

If you wrap a piece of tape at a known depth on a French iron. You can repeat the same size holes. It also helps give a visual on how far in your going or need to go. 

I'm not kidding. You only need about .50-1.0mm protrusion of the tines on the exit hole. It also helps you from gorilla pounding the irons too deep. 

 

Repeated results. The French are some smart craftsman. No wonder Paris fashion is the thing. Anyone saying they don't like French irons because some guy on YouTube doesn't understand them. Is selling themselves short. 

It's all about the wedge. 

[toxo]

27 minutes ago, SUP said:

Oh. Okay. I'm lazy, I'm afraid. So I'll stick to the wax block until someone enterprising, like you () comes up with a good recipe for making that wax in a bottle and shares it.  However, if I don't use the wax block, I have the headache of needing to cut more splits, more frequently. Melting and hardening wax is infinitely easier than  doing that. It also is the safest for the tips of my chisels. I have never ever punched right through the wax block. 

Beginning to think you're winding me up SUP LOL. Not about punching through the wax. Get one of these bottles (cheap as chips). Take the top off, put wax inside, put in microwave for a few seconds, put top back on and run along the stitch line or groove. Simps.

[SUP]

 

1 hour ago, toxo said:

Beginning to think you're winding me up SUP LOL

Oops. You caught me. 

Good idea about the dropper bottle though. 

[Beehive]

Raises hand* 

 

Why is it red? (The needle bottle). And how thick is this leather to where it needs so much wax? Doesn't it make one hades of a mess? 

I'm not having any kind of that difficulty pulling irons out. 

[Beehive]

Today, my book cover is completed. I have to run 18" of stitch. Last time it took an hour and a half. So far, this cover has both .08mm thread and .04mm. The .08 is in Havana cigar. The .04 is red. 

 

After it's sewn. I'm going to break all the square edges with a Ron's Tools #1 edger. If you've ever wondered why a person would need a #1. I'm going to show you. 

[Herbie]

17 minutes ago, Beehive said:

Today, my book cover is completed. I have to run 18" of stitch. Last time it took an hour and a half. So far, this cover has both .08mm thread and .04mm. The .08 is in Havana cigar. The .04 is red. 

 

After it's sewn. I'm going to break all the square edges with a Ron's Tools #1 edger. If you've ever wondered why a person would need a #1. I'm going to show you. 

I can't wait to see this! And the Ron's edger work.  I may have to get one myself.

[Beehive]

2 minutes ago, Herbie said:

I can't wait to see this! And the Ron's edger work.  I may have to get one myself.

 

If you buy the Ron's edgers. You're gonna need the whole set. The step up in sizes don't match with other makers. Ron's are standard sized and you really can't match it, trying to build a set that includes metric sizes. 

I bit the bullet and bought #1 to #5. I bought the #1, #2, and #4 to start. #3, and #5 are in the mail. That's if Toby the new owner has gotten the #3's back from heat treat. #3 seems to be a popular size. Back order type deal. 

 

$670 including shipping. That includes a #4 French skiver. I moved up from my own handmade tools. Of all the things to spend money on. I highly recommend the best you can get dealing with edgers.