Binding with a right angle binder on a walking foot machine

[Dave9111]

I am using a Pfaff 1245 walking foot and I purchased a right angle binder setup probably 10 years ago and I have never been able to master this thing.

I bought 100 yards of polyester single fold binding from Rochford supply years ago and it works ok on straight runs or large curves.   

The Rochford binding is rather stiff so I have to fight it when doing tighter turns, about 6 inch radius and less.   So I thought I would try and buy some double fold polyester binding off Amazon, it was cheap.  Its a thin material but it doesn't work well in the binder.   Somehow it rolls sometimes after making the turn in the binder.  My guess is that it is not stiff enough.

So what next? 

Rochford, Wawak, and Amazon all have a lot of binding, but I have no idea what will work well in this binder.

Do I just keep guessing and buy a few different kinds?   Wawak offers heavy, medium and light single fold binding.    Is there any standard for what is Heavy, medium and light?

Would woven, unfolded, twill binding possibly work?  

I never thought that binding would be this challenging!   Are there any how-to's written on how do run a binder?  

Are straight binders more forgiving than right angle binders?

Thanks,  Dave

[Wizcrafts]

@Dave9111;

Many years aago I had a sew ing gig that required me to sew binding onto the edges of road workers' safety vgave ding run off the top or bottom on turns, especially inside turns. The vests had outside and inside curves. I  tried inexpensive oriental binders, but they let the bindinsg run off the top or bottom on inside curves. My dealer recommended getting a custom binder made by a specialist. It cost the boss $400 for that binder, but it worked flawlessly. If you aren't getting satisfactory results with a stock binder, look into a custom made binder that's made to work with a particular binding material.

The right angle binder I had made double-folded binding out of flat 1.25 inch polyester edge tape.

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Dave9111 said:

Are straight binders more forgiving than right angle binders?

I use inline/straight binders single fold and double fold from 1/4" to 3 1/2" on all my machines whether they are flatbed or cylinder arm. The main advantage of a 90 degree binder is that it should be able to do tighter corners then a inline/ straight. The disadvantages of the 90 degree binders are i) they cost a lot more then your inline/ straight. ii) you can't on most adjust the tension on the tape at binder itself. The main problem I think you are having is poor back tension on your tape and the path the binding tape travels through the binder is to wide so you are getting tape slop. 

Are you using your binding tape with a vertical or horizontal platter or just letting it drape to the floor??

Any photo's of your binding setup???

[Dave9111]

Thanks for the replies!  :-) 

I'll get you guys some pictures today.

I have several of those safety vests so I know exactly what you are talking about.  Some of those binding curves are rather tight.

This binder setup was made specifically made for the Pfaff 1245.   It has a boss brazed to a new bobbin cover plate and the right angle binder is screwed to the boss.

I think it cost $80 or $90, 10 years ago, so maybe $150 or more in todays money?   

It very well may be a China cheapie on a custom cover plate.  

I'm thinking that the binding material I have been using is simply wrong.   I ordered some medium weight bias tape from Wawak and it was supposed to be here today, but the freezing rain and ice is delaying the shipment delivery until tomorrow.

My tape feed to the binder consists of am inverted plastic drink cup with a hole in the bottom ( custom! ) , and a 1/2" dowel sticking upright in my tool holder block on the machine table.   The cup spaces the reel off  the tool holder.  That actually works pretty well!   The tape falls maybe a foot from the right side of the table to the binder.  

 

 

[nylonRigging]

10 hours ago, Dave9111 said:

Thanks for the replies!  :-) 

I'll get you guys some pictures today.

I have several of those safety vests so I know exactly what you are talking about.  Some of those binding curves are rather tight.

This binder setup was made specifically made for the Pfaff 1245.   It has a boss brazed to a new bobbin cover plate and the right angle binder is screwed to the boss.

I think it cost $80 or $90, 10 years ago, so maybe $150 or more in todays money?   

It very well may be a China cheapie on a custom cover plate.  

I'm thinking that the binding material I have been using is simply wrong.   I ordered some medium weight bias tape from Wawak and it was supposed to be here today, but the freezing rain and ice is delaying the shipment delivery until tomorrow.

My tape feed to the binder consists of am inverted plastic drink cup with a hole in the bottom ( custom! ) , and a 1/2" dowel sticking upright in my tool holder block on the machine table.   The cup spaces the reel off  the tool holder.  That actually works pretty well!   The tape falls maybe a foot from the right side of the table to the binder.  

 

 

 

Your binding tape choices make a HUGE difference when you don't match to your specific needs . Also a lot of the cheep import binding is out of spec. crap. Try only to buy US milled quality and it really aids to better tracking, lays down better, makes your work look 100% professional. Buy your product from a good vendor selling US quality mil-spec. or just order direct, like from Bally Ribbon mill.

Cheep Binders, they can lay down Real Nice tape job with using quality tape, and If the binder is setup proper on that machine.
but, then just opposite. Expensive-$ Binder if setup Bad to machine, just gives you one continuous Headache after another. with your work looking like crap.
.

[Dave9111]

I received my Wawak 1" binding so I decided to try it.  The pictures mostly show the Wawak Bias Tape Binding.

The picture with the cylindrical roll of Rochford tape is what works in this binder.   The picture with the coarse tape in the binder is the Rochford tape.  The Rochford tape is straight cut and when sewn doesn't want to turn corners.   I was hoping the Wawak bias tape (the flat roll) would turn corners, but I can't get it to lay down properly properly prior to stitching.   

So the Wawak Bias Tape binding was an utter failure.  It won't work in this binder.  It slides and then rolls one edge before it gets to the right angle turn.  I tried several things and the binding will not track straight in this binder.   I think this binder is simply not compatible with thin bias tape.  It works well with the Rochford tape, but the Rochford tape is probably made out of 6 oz canvas.  The Wawak bias tape is probably 1-2 oz fabric.   Huge difference.   I think I am trying to run light clothing tape in a binder made for canvas tape.  

I thought Rochford might sell bias cut tape similar to what works, but they do not.  Its all straight cut.

NylonRigging... if I buy some mil spec binding, which I think is similar to molle tape/webbing(?), will that turn corners?  Do you think it will go through a right angle binder?

Or perhaps I should get a different binder and put it on lighter weight straight stitch machine?   Most of what I want to do is bind 2 layers of 8 oz canvas.   But I need to be able to make inside and outside turns.   Similar to a safety vest binding which was mentioned.  I have a common, straight stitch industrial machine, non walking foot, which could be setup with a different binder.  It isn't getting much use anyway.

In many cases I really don't need heavy binding.  Its fairly expensive.  The cheaper Rochford 1" tapes are about $75 for 100 yard.  The more expensive tapes are about $150/100 yards.   The Wawak tape was $14.00 for 55 yards and it is heavy enough for a lot of what I want to do.

I was hoping I could run the light, cheap binding in this binder, and be able to turn corners, but apparently the binder was designed for 6-10 oz fabric binding.

Buying a $400 binder setup doesn't make sense since I don't do that much binding and for the most part I am not getting paid for my work.  I've sold some covers on Ebay, but the sales are not significant.   This is primarily for my own use.   I have a couple of boats and a bunch of equipment and I seem to constantly be making covers or bags for this and that.    I made a large cover for a trailer recently that was 15ft x 46 ft in size.    I need to make a sailboat cover and there are places on the cover that I would like to be able to bind and there are many tight turns.

You might notice in the picts that I am not using a stubby binding foot for the front foot, I have one, but it was interfering with the binder bracket.  So I changed it to a small regular foot to try and figure out what was going on.

What do you guys think?  

Thanks! 

[Wizcrafts]

@Dave9111

Have you tried contacting Sailrite using their online chat? They deal with people sewing canvas and nylon. All of their machines have special binder attachments available that work with the bias tape they sell. This ain't yo Momma's bias tape either. Some of it is made out of canvas. They sell Sunbrella and matching bias tape. Chances are that their folders and tapes will get your jobs done correctly.

Here is one of the Sailrite videos demonstrating how to sew both inside and outside 90 degree turns using Sunbrella bias tape and fabric.

[Dave9111]

Ill look.  I buy from Sailrite occasionally.  

They are about 45 minutes from me.

Good idea.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Dave9111 said:

Ill look.  I buy from Sailrite occasionally.  

They are about 45 minutes from me.

Good idea.

Bring some of your material with you. Have them try to bind it with their tape and binder. Then, let us know how it plays out.

[Dave9111]

I was looking at Sailrites binder.  It says its suitable for gentle outside curves.   They only have a straight binder for sale.  No right angles which I have been told is required for tight inside and outside curves.  But they do have heavier bias tape, which Rochford does not.  Rochford only has straight cut tape, which seems strange.  Perhaps I need to simply buy some of Sailrites bias tape and try that with the binder I have.  

Im going to drive right by Sailrite tomorrow.  I think Ill place a pickup order and try and get it tomorrow.  But I wont be able to try it for several days since Im driving to my daughter's house in Chicago.