Binding with a right angle binder on a walking foot machine

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Dave9111 said:

What do you guys think?  

i) The binder you are using is not positioned properly from front to back and twisted. To me it seems as though it was made to be used with a particular type of binding tape with a specific presser foot setup.

ii) The binder has no front to back adjustment.

iii) The make shift arrangement of how you are mounting the coil of bias tape is never going to give you consistent and acceptable results.

Suggestions:

i) Purchase a proper bias tape platter. I prefer a platter that holds the bias tape horizontally over one that hold the bias tape a vertically.

ii) Since you are close to the Sailrite store purchase a Sailrite inline binder for 1" binding tape if that is the size you want  ( https://www.sailrite.com/Binder-1-Swing-Bracket ) with a swing away attachment. I have a couple of the Sailrite binders that came with a Sailrite machine that I picked up awhile ago and they are decent quality but expensive at $72 USD.

As a price comparison you can get a pretty good CKPSMS branded one off Amazon.com for $20 with a swing away attachment ( https://www.amazon.com/CKPSMS-Adjustable-Single-A4B-Machines/dp/B0BH8MG3SR?crid=1AQ7CPZYU45IC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Vk4OlxqvhPRNsqsK4L5btm_oB3ToI8b9AUN-BxlpKNlq-4hV3Nd9ALOdzkLEDyln43jzKhLQ8ptVTstf5lcUSkSDGJkKjWxkZ1dTnVWiZnJr_CL_STfYpLxqowFJTLTtsoLsEU7Z4dj1HHfBFB7_BkINB_wnW9KhwsLChDL4ztsiJ0gJ0DOSanI4teK5lKTby1K1j4p7pqcWcje5uMH6tezCKaPNUYSRAzGcXvdyJmqci88YI0BzhJg5ZccBWEO1CHeBx4skmcN8RqYHbrM8aROf51xjDe5iO33-i_OiwSR2ljvhBvF7aou_4pcrLA2bpxNM0QqPbIRuaogpBAq7uz2mZ32xKTXbk2wGBuUpnf7phIKBiXYs_XPiYeMrZWOXYUREyAaMCYoa7pFkZ3yDaZyAz4lXRIQi2esyfFAH9YBydEv1HVwDXc5pOuqpe1Xd.1ZGLcvgIyXGofpY6xddiETTz6CkoSkul-8DmIUohh9U&dib_tag=se&keywords=CKPSMS+Brand+-+1SET+Swing+Away+single+Fold+Binder+Attachment&qid=1739146362&sprefix=ckpsms+brand+-+1set+swing+away+single+fold+binder+attachment+%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-4 )

If I am not mistaken Sailrite binders only come in single fold so you would have to purchase binding tape already folded over or use raw edge binding tape in the size for the binder you buy.

52 minutes ago, Dave9111 said:

No right angles which I have been told is required for tight inside and outside curves.

How tight are you planning on doing? With a inline binder I can usually get about a 2 1/2" diameter turn and if I am careful about 2" diameter. all lot depends on the thickness of the binding tape and material.

kgg

[nylonRigging]

12 hours ago, Dave9111 said:

NylonRigging... if I buy some mil spec binding, which I think is similar to molle tape/webbing(?), will that turn corners?  Do you think it will go through a right angle binder?

 

Sorry, couldn't reply sooner I been in the shop all day cutting a sewing . OK first off, I don't understand this, In the Pic. ? , I might not be seeing it correctly ? with your Tape feeding/going into Binder.  You got a Raw-Edge Binder, and it looks like you got Tape folding, as it is feeding into the binders throat.
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Edited February 10 by nylonRigging

[nylonRigging]

Also add..

Turning radius is not to hard if you get the setup correctly mounted into the Feet on your machine . That is a BIG hurtle to teach yourself. Reality is that the only way to really learn how, is to just start mounting Binders to your machines Feed, and build some understanding with how positions/angle/height effects the feeding of the binding out the throat and lays.
Different binding materials do turn different. Also you might be trying to turn to Wide of Width Binding, in relationship to your thickness of material ? .  it does takes some practice also so you need to take it all in stride, dude I been running finish edge seam binding over 30+ years, with almost everything I sew having binding on it, and I still screw-up once in while.
( Me ).. I have set-up a CrapLoad of binders on machines, and fed many miles of binding. I seam bind almost everyday I sewing .. But.. my skill.. I only know what I do for last 30+ years. I use double-needle and single-needle, I only use raw edge binders and binding, I primarily use 'Love' needle-feeds for taping/binding . I do have and use compound feeds, but synchronized-swing set-ups . I mostly 'like using'  type-lll grosgrain's, and I use Herringbone Bias binding.
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OK.. I just grabbed cut some scrap to show you different material in reference to thickness of material you bind . 'Radius' Binding. using ( 2 ) R-Angle Binders.

Here a 5" circle consisting of 2-piece of 1-k denier cordura. seam bound with 3/4" wide typelll with a 3/32 gauge double needle,  T-70 thread . 5" radius is about as tight as I like to go with a double-needle . Single-needle with some 1/2" wide bias will easy turn even smaller/tighter radius .
Then there a radius with material of 3-pieces of 1-k cordura with some high density closed cell foam in-between. So this is lot Thicker edge, and I using 1" wide type2 herringbone Bias, with a single-needle, and #138 nylon thread.
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Edited February 10 by nylonRigging

[Dave9111]

10 hours ago, kgg said:

ii) The binder has no front to back adjustment.

It has some but not much.   I can twist the binder on the two screws that go into the bobbin cover plate and there are two screws hidden but not much.

It came with binder feet but I could not get the binder to the left enough without hitting the binder so I used a different front foot.  I could have cut off part of the foot but that seemed harsh for a test.   As it turned out the bias tape I had wouldn't feed properly.

Its not an ideal setup for sure.

The cup and dowel worked ok for my reel of Rochford binding but I agree wont work long term for this flat wound binding.  I would need to make a support plate / platter beneath the binding.  I would like to be able to bind a 4" circle of material.   Even smaller would be better.

 

[kgg]

2 minutes ago, Dave9111 said:

The cup and dowel worked ok for my reel of Rochford binding but I agree wont work long term for this flat wound binding. 

When you make one have the flat plate spin on a bearing that way you will not be dragging the whole weight of the coil of binding tape and it will be easier to get consistent back tension.

kgg

[Dave9111]

10 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

OK first off, I don't understand this, In the Pic. ?

The tape is called a single fold bias tape by Wawak.   It is a strip of material with both edges folded inwards.   No matter what I do with that binder, the tape is pulled down towards the bottom of the binder.   I can apply tension to it, wind it through the tension wires, try and tension it back and up.  Yet, the tape is still pulled down towards the table.   That tape just doesnt seem to work at all with this binder.

The heavier Rochford binding doesn't do that at all.  

I did order one of those CKPSMS binders that KGG mentioned.   I might try that as well with the lighter Wawak binding.

 

[Dave9111]

9 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

'Radius' Binding. using ( 2 ) R-Angle Binders.

Looks like you have binding down pat!   I never thought about using a double needle machine to do binding.

Is there a definition someplace which defines binding types?  "type-lll grosgrain's, and I use Herringbone Bias binding" etc?

I see grosgrain binding mentioned but it doesn't specify weight or thickness.  When I bought the Wawak bias binding I had no clue as to how heavy the binding would be.

My order at Sailrite is ready for pickup so I will get that today and try it next weekend when I return.

Thanks! 

Edited February 10 by Dave9111

[Dave9111]

11 minutes ago, kgg said:

When you make one have the flat plate spin on a bearing that way you will not be dragging the whole weight of the coil of binding tape and it will be easier to get consistent back tension.

I can do that.   Does anyone make relatively inexpensive binding platters?  

Thanks! 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Dave9111 said:

I can do that. 

Here is a sketch of a simple platter.

i) Thread 3/8" rod about 12 " long.

ii) 3/8" Nuts. Need  3 of them.

iii) Platter: Can be plastic or metal as long as it is big enough and sturdy enough to hold your bias tape.

iv) 3/8" Bearing: Need one 

v) The mounted to the table I will leave up to you.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Dave9111 said:

I can do that.   Does anyone make relatively inexpensive binding platters?  

Thanks! 

I bought this inexpensive binder platter on Ebay, a couple years ago. I clamps onto the edge of the table.