Binding with a right angle binder on a walking foot machine

[nylonRigging]

  On 2/10/2025 at 3:22 PM, Dave9111 said:

The tape is called a single fold bias tape by Wawak.   It is a strip of material with both edges folded inwards.   No matter what I do with that binder, the tape is pulled down towards the bottom of the binder.   I can apply tension to it, wind it through the tension wires, try and tension it back and up.  Yet, the tape is still pulled down towards the table.   That tape just doesnt seem to work at all with this binder.

The heavier Rochford binding doesn't do that at all.  

I did order one of those CKPSMS binders that KGG mentioned.   I might try that as well with the lighter Wawak binding.

 

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The binder itself looks like a plain raw edge binder. pretty sure there a difference in raw edge, and double-fold materials for binders . Do you even need to use a double-edge fold binding tape ?, factory woven edge probably is just fine for your finish seam binding . Also. I would think it harder to make a good radius turn also with using  the double-fold, over using a raw edge finish . Even though it a more pliable bias weave, being 'double thickness' is going to lead to tracking issues on stitching bending tight radius .

I do have double-fold attachments of different sizes for double folding cut material strips, but I never use double-fold  binding materials in binding.

Also 'Wawak' .  have actually never bought anything from them, but they look to be a sew supply house and not an actual production Mill . I just typed the single word 'webbing' into the google search. They look to be a heavy payer-$ for brand name placement up-front covering 1st page for search findings . I NOT saying saying Wawak good/bad . I just saying they buy their materials from everywhere on the planet to then stamp their Name on for Retail Sales. I would find out if you buying 'paying' for import or domestic for your materials like bindings and webbing because there is a BIG difference in quality most times.

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[nylonRigging]

  On 2/10/2025 at 3:31 PM, Dave9111 said:

Is there a definition someplace which defines binding types?  "type-lll grosgrain's, and I use Herringbone Bias binding" etc?

I see grosgrain binding mentioned but it doesn't specify weight or thickness.  When I bought the Wawak bias binding I had no clue as to how heavy the binding would be.

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I got into all this side of things on the Para Rigging side of sewing, and to this day it still makes my head spin with the designated 'ID' Mil-Spec labeling of every individual type of webbing, binding, tapes, threads ...etc. It's a Federal Gov. and military labeling that all material must fall into a ( minimum requirement/rating )  of, size, thickness, structural breaking strength, ..etc. I think it even gets into the number of TPI requirements on the Looms that are even doing the weaving. with all this also getting into 'Berry compliance'.. Bla bla bla bla...eyes glaze over....LOL

Getting into this is a 'Rabbit Hole' that you wont see daylight for a week. But like I said in earlier Post. the quality of your binding materials you use will feed and lay so much better if it mil.spec. and US Milled product. Your headaches will be minimal with binding. This plus getting the proper binder, set-up proper to your machine . Grosgrain, most common seam bind is 3/4" and 1' width tape, you want to use ' Mil-T-5038H class 1A type lll . 

If you do a order straight from the Mill . Here is a pic. of the common label with the nomenclature of spec compliance .

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[nylonRigging]

  On 2/10/2025 at 3:31 PM, Dave9111 said:

 I never thought about using a double needle machine to do binding.

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Double-Needle does leave a great finish look for edge binding .
Also you talking about 'Sailrite' for binders ? and I think their main machine line is all Drop-Feed Walkers, and they push binders for that system. That a little different Feed than your Pfaff Compound-Feed machine . The Non-Walk feed of the inner foot and Needle shaft of Drop-feed walk is easier to set-up a simple stationary Binder on positioning it right in there tight to needle.

AND .. have you ever thought of just getting an old Singer single-needle or double-needle Like an Old.. 111 112 or, 211 212 in a ( Needle Feed ) to learning on for Binder set-up, and Binding ? . Needle-feed does a nice job for binding. People pass over the old needle-feed Singers all the time when looking for a old compound-feed, and most are sold pretty cheep.
Needle-feed does a great job binding. the old Singer feet, dogs, plates are plentiful and cheep. Setting up Binders on them is a little more forgiving and easier learning curve. Everything you build on your sew binding technique from that will translate over bigtime for latter down the road. along with setting up other binders.
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I cant edit/add anything to last Post I made, I guess I timed-out for that.
For a mil-spec  Nylon Herringbone/bias . I pretty sure it's  a  '  Mil-W-4088 ' . I use that for years and it tops for way it feeds and finish presentation.
Also it Never Hurts to just ask suppliers to mail sample of binding materials if you not sure what it is, for you to see if it is what you want to use before a larger order.

Pic. of some of the 3/4" and 1" ,on the Mil-W-4088 Nylon binding, and the weave look.
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[Dave9111]

  On 2/10/2025 at 4:51 PM, kgg said:

Here is a sketch of a simple platter.

i) Thread 3/8" rod about 12 " long.

ii) 3/8" Nuts. Need  3 of them.

iii) Platter: Can be plastic or metal as long as it is big enough and sturdy enough to hold your bias tape.

iv) 3/8" Bearing: Need one 

v) The mounted to the table I will leave up to you.

kgg

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  On 2/10/2025 at 5:12 PM, Wizcrafts said:

I bought this inexpensive binder platter on Ebay, a couple years ago. I clamps onto the edge of the table.

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Great.. I need to pursue one of these! 

[Dave9111]

NylonRigging: 

I dont need to use a pre folded tape.  Grosgrain type tape would be fine.  I just have no idea what Im buying! 

I did pickup some folded polyester bias binding from Sailrite yesterday and I think it will work in my binder.  But its not cheap.  $140+ for 100 yards.  Nicer than I need!

Ill look for some of that grosgrain. Thanks for the picts and explanation. 

I dont have a needle feed machine.  Other machines I could use with a binder:   a Chandler lockstitch industrial machine, a two needle machine like the Consew 339 walking foot, a Singer 143W2 zig zag, and an Adler 69 zig zag.  I think the Adler was rigged with a binder but it didnt come with the machine.   

I have looked briefly at the little Sailrite machines, but I didnt realize they arent like the Pfaff 1245 feed.  That explains how they can use that binder as they do.

Wawak is just a big distributor I believe.  Actually a pretty good one. 

Rochford is also a distributor but I think they are also a manufacturer.  I think they may be making fabric now?  I thought I read that.

Thanks

 

 

 

[Dave9111]

I meant an Adler 98 Zig Zag.  Not 69.

[nylonRigging]

  On 2/12/2025 at 1:07 AM, Dave9111 said:

I meant an Adler 98 Zig Zag.  Not 69.

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Your Pfaff 1245 is not a common machine for finding Synchronized-swing binder set-ups . for your compound feed that would really be the thing for you to get hookedup with trying to do a correct professional set-up . If you had a 335 you be golden they common for aftermarket . I dont thing KHsew in Hong Kong does one either, and only one I see offering syncro-swing  parts for a 1245 is Italian . Offering  Dog/plate, Feet, and Bracket is this one.in link below--->  They List parts model #'s of... 145 / 245 / 545 / 1245

1245/syncr/swing/bind

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Edit Add:  Well I lied to you...LOL .

I logged-into KH and looked around and, they Do offer for Pfaff 1245 . I bought things from KHsew before and they are 'very' good quality machined aftermarket parts, and super Fast on the delivery to.

KH/1245/swing .. https://www.khsew.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=141_143_250&product_id=383

KH/1245/Dog-Needle Plate .. https://www.khsew.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=374

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Edited February 12 by nylonRigging

[Dave9111]

This synchronized swing binder is on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166181002954?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=gU3nAcQKSqG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=FGCZDBBTSMO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

But it doesn't actually contain the folding device?   Why would they not sell that as part of this sale?  

This seems odd.

So, due to the compound feed, it appears that the Pfaff 1245 is not a great machine for binding? 

Edited February 12 by Dave9111

[nylonRigging]

  On 2/12/2025 at 3:01 PM, Dave9111 said:

This synchronized swing binder is on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166181002954?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=gU3nAcQKSqG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=FGCZDBBTSMO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

But it doesn't actually contain the folding device?   Why would they not sell that as part of this sale?  

This seems odd.

So, due to the compound feed, it appears that the Pfaff 1245 is not a great machine for binding? 

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Man that a cheap price to start building a setup . .

All the binder throats are sold separate In different sizes for the width of binding you using .. All you do is just take Off/On with the two screws on end of arm, and that good for you so you can move back-forth from maybe 1/2 or 3/4" for your thin stuff. to 1" and wider for thicker binding . . 

Your compound feed should do a very good job binding, it just a different feed with certain characteristics. Your clipped into a hole on the Dog and your swinging synchronized to the feed motion . you just have to learn to set-up and then build a technique by just binding different edges/shapes/thickness ..

all binder size throats sold separate sizes/widths. just take out 2 screws and swap the tapes . If you have different size feet cut/shaped  married to that size Tape, then you swap them also.  .. PIC.

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[Dave9111]

  On 2/12/2025 at 7:56 PM, nylonRigging said:

 

Man that a cheap price to start building a setup . .

All the binder throats are sold separate In different sizes for the width of binding you using .. All you do is just take Off/On with the two screws on end of arm, and that good for you so you can move back-forth from maybe 1/2 or 3/4" for your thin stuff. to 1" and wider for thicker binding . . 

Your compound feed should do a very good job binding, it just a different feed with certain characteristics. Your clipped into a hole on the Dog and your swinging synchronized to the feed motion . you just have to learn to set-up and then build a technique by just binding different edges/shapes/thickness ..

all binder size throats sold separate sizes/widths. just take out 2 screws and swap the tapes . If you have different size feet cut/shaped  married to that size Tape, then you swap them also.  .. PIC.

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Got it.

It would be worth it to me to spend a couple hundred on a setup that works properly.  Ive been tossing money into the wind and getting nowhere, $35 at a time. 

Ill do more digging.  They must have some other things on ebay that I missed.  I saw the knurled screws on the bar and was thinking that was for something else rather than the binder throat sheetmetal.  

In the kit that came with the binder I have, it included a smooth feed dog with a hole in it for a moving attachment, it also included a needle plate (that surrounds the dog) but the bobbin housing doesnt engage the needle plate properly from below.

This Pfaff 1245 is automated and I think it had a thread cutter/trimmer on it but it was removed before I got it.  That just complicates an already complicated situation.

Thanks