Help with gray leather dye, wood stain question

[DoubleKCustomLeathercraft]

I'm sure there's been at least a couple discussions about this. I have a client that's been wanting a gray leather belt, and he's very very patient. It's been about a year of discussions and failed attempts. Not dark gray, but mid tone of gray. I've tried a few different experiments, with one almost working. 

First, the one that kinda works, but not to my standards. A bucket of rusty steel, and water. Just sitting there forever soaking. A few weeks, months, years... You take the water and put it into a pan that can be heated. Add some rusty metal, nails work best imo. Maybe a single ream of framing nails at this point. Heat the water, but not to a boil. About 170° give or take. Then let it cool. Dip dye at this point, but it's more of a soak. Overnight got me light gray, a week got to dark gray. The issue is it doesn't penetrate the leather at all. A light scratch will show. So for me, and for anyone that's wanting a color to last. That doesn't work. 

Right now I'm making vinegarroon. I just did a test strip and it came out dark, but more of a brown than a gray. I know that when the steel wool is gone, the solution is great for black. I'm thinking if I dilute it, it will work. Hopes are up, but expectations are null. 

Ok, now that I wrote a novel.

Is there a dye in gray that's available to buy, that actually works good? I'm not a fan of the water based dye that Tandy sells. Can't remember brand name right now. 

Has anyone tried adding white Indian ink to black dye? This might be my next experiment.

Finally, what do y'all think about wood stain on veg leather? I've done this as a youngster making some (elementary)  school project that I can't remember exactly. Was something to do with the item trail. Does the stain rub off a lot? What would be the disadvantages? 

Any help will be appreciated. I've already told my client that from what I've read and tried, it might be wishful thinking. But I refuse to accept that. 

[Beehive]

What pops in my head. Try Vinegaroon that's treated with baking soda...before applying to the leather. See what happens. See if the baking soda has decreased the strength of Vinegaroon. Producing that shade of grey before the chemical reaction can fully take hold. 

I'm spit ballin' here but that's what I'd try. Either that or reduce the alcohol based, black dye, down by a third or more. 

[Northmount]

@DoubleKCustomLeathercraft Moved your post to Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners.

 

[fredk]

Grey/gray dye is available. I bought grey dye from a seller in England, but thats not a lot of use to you

[SUP]

One way would be to decrease the tannins by using washing soda or tannin cleanser on the leather first before treating with Vinegaroon, since tannins are needed to get a deep black color.

Another way would be to make a new batch with very little iron added, so that the Vinegaroon will be very dilute. Try it every few hours  on scrap leather until you get the shade that you need. 

[fredk]

16 hours ago, DoubleKCustomLeathercraft said:

Finally, what do y'all think about wood stain on veg leather? I've done this as a youngster making some (elementary)  school project that I can't remember exactly. Was something to do with the item trail. Does the stain rub off a lot? What would be the disadvantages? 

Wood stain works well if you take into consideration; use only oil dye, your leather needs prepared correctly for the dye to spread evenly. the wood dye removes natural oils from the leather so it will need a feeding of NFO afterwards

[DoubleKCustomLeathercraft]

5 hours ago, SUP said:

One way would be to decrease the tannins by using washing soda or tannin cleanser on the leather first before treating with Vinegaroon, since tannins are needed to get a deep black color.

Another way would be to make a new batch with very little iron added, so that the Vinegaroon will be very dilute. Try it every few hours  on scrap leather until you get the shade that you need. 

 

6 hours ago, SUP said:

One way would be to decrease the tannins by using washing soda or tannin cleanser on the leather first before treating with Vinegaroon, since tannins are needed to get a deep black color.

Another way would be to make a new batch with very little iron added, so that the Vinegaroon will be very dilute. Try it every few hours  on scrap leather until you get the shade that you need. 

Thanks for the information. I have been doing test strips and I might have found the gray i was looking for. But I'm also making this vinegarroon for wood applications (ebonizing) so it's going to go full strength. That dark brown color I Got the other day turned into gray by the next morning. Must've needed more dry time. But the thing that's weird is it's almost translucent, making the natural color of the leather ones through the gray and it's almost grainy like an old photo. But i think when is done, I'll dilute it until i get the right shade. Then send a sample to my client to see if he's good with it or not. I'm also going to try this India ink I have for artwork mixed into some black pro dye. Just to calm my curiosity. 

5 hours ago, fredk said:

Wood stain works well if you take into consideration; use only oil dye, your leather needs prepared correctly for the dye to spread evenly. the wood dye removes natural oils from the leather so it will need a feeding of NFO afterwards

I figured the wood stain would require something more. I would go with an oil base if I did. All my leather gets neetsfoot oil before I put any final sealers on. So the stain taking some of the oil out isn't going to be too much of an issue. Would you say dampening it, or a light coat of oil would help with maintaining an even saturation? 

13 hours ago, Beehive said:

What pops in my head. Try Vinegaroon that's treated with baking soda...before applying to the leather. See what happens. See if the baking soda has decreased the strength of Vinegaroon. Producing that shade of grey before the chemical reaction can fully take hold. 

I'm spit ballin' here but that's what I'd try. Either that or reduce the alcohol based, black dye, down by a third or more. 

So baking soda bath before? I know that it's required after to neutralize the Vinegaroon's acidic nature. 

I haven't actually tried to just thin the black dye. I vaguely remember someone saying they tried that and it didn't come out well at all. This would actually be the easiest way to do it. I'll give that a go too. 

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I've been researching and trying to find videos on YouTube addressing gray but it doesn't seem to be a popular subject or in just bad at researching lol