How do I get this brown?

[Timothy Lindblom]

Hi, been reading the forum for a few months but just signed up today. 
I'm working on a leather belt for my Mom and she wants it brown like the pair of boots in the photo below. 
I've always used Fiebings leather dye and there's nothing similar to a brown like the boots. By the time those dyes get lighter, they start to get orange. These boots are still brown even though they are nice light brown. Do I need to mix colors together or is there a dye on the market that is the color I'm looking for?

Any advice would be appreciated. 

Below is a photo of the brown boots I would like to match

 

And here is a photo of a scrap with medium brown diluted with about 40% water and the leather was coated with resolene before dyed. I like the color but it is much more orange than the boots. 

 

Edited June 25 by Timothy Lindblom

[AlZilla]

@Timothy Lindblom

You probably should convert those pics to jpg or png or something more common. They don't display for me and probably a bunch more folks.

[Timothy Lindblom]

2 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

@Timothy Lindblom

You probably should convert those pics to jpg or png or something more common. They don't display for me and probably a bunch more folks.

Fixed, thanks. I don't know why it likes to choose HEIC files which no one can do anything with!

[AlZilla]

Thank you!

Now, that brown ... there's a "Bison Brown" from Tandy that might be closer. The biggest problem is who knows if the pic on your monitor is going to resemble in person samples.

Here's a color chart for Angelus dyes:

[Timothy Lindblom]

Thanks. I had seen the Eco-Flo Bison Brown and thought it was nice but still not the same. Some of those Angelus colors are pretty close

[bland]

Matching a color is hard.  You have a lot of things working against you.  The boots are chrome tanned leather and have some patina from wear.  Vegtable tanned leathers from different tanneries have different color tones even different hides from the same tannery have slight differences.  I don't think there is an exact science. 

There will be a lot of trial and error.  If I was trying to match the color of the boots I would probably start with a Fiebings  Dark Chocolate or Walnut (they are a little less orange/tan) diluted down to about 1/4 strength with alcohol.  If it is too light add a little more dye too dark more alcohol.  If it is still too orange I would add a little black and more dilution, the black will tone down the orange.  Keep track of the ratios and keep test piece of scrap where you can see the differences.  When you get close add your finish of choice and see where you are at. 

It is going to be a science experiment.

Have fun!   

[SUP]

I got a similar brown when I was first learning to dye leather and did not use the resist correctly before antiquing. The leather got dyed  a  uniform dark brown with the antiquing dye. You could try it on some scrap. As far as I can remember, I used Eco-Flo dark brown gel antique. I used a split for the sheath and used the antique finish as a dye precisely to get this brown.

Edited June 25 by SUP

[Timothy Lindblom]

8 hours ago, bland said:

Matching a color is hard.  You have a lot of things working against you.  The boots are chrome tanned leather and have some patina from wear.  Vegtable tanned leathers from different tanneries have different color tones even different hides from the same tannery have slight differences.  I don't think there is an exact science. 

There will be a lot of trial and error.  If I was trying to match the color of the boots I would probably start with a Fiebings  Dark Chocolate or Walnut (they are a little less orange/tan) diluted down to about 1/4 strength with alcohol.  If it is too light add a little more dye too dark more alcohol.  If it is still too orange I would add a little black and more dilution, the black will tone down the orange.  Keep track of the ratios and keep test piece of scrap where you can see the differences.  When you get close add your finish of choice and see where you are at. 

It is going to be a science experiment.

Have fun!   

Thanks. Would you coat the leather in resolene prior to rubbing on the walnut or chocolate dye? I do normally because it causes the dye to go on much more evenly but it also messes with the shade of the color a little.

[BlackDragon]

Resolene is a protective finish and should be used to seal the leather. It's better to dampen the leather with water or use a little neatsfoot oil to make your dye even out. Also when adding your finish it is likely the color will change as well. It may become a deeper color and more glossy esp when using an oil or resolene. 

What Fiebings dye are you using, Pro or Ecoflo? If you're using Pro don't dilute with water, you can use alcohol.

Color matching can be very difficult, especially with something that has been in the elements and has darken over time, BUT it may be possible to get somewhat close. Also the leather you use for a test should come from the same leather you're going to make your belt because different leather may react differently to the same dye. Sometimes even using a different section of the same leather can change results.

To the color you showed try adding just a little bit of blue to see if it brings down the yellow. A few drops of blue goes a long way and you can always add more.

[TomG]

I would never undercoat with anything but pure NFO.

Resolene is an acrylic sealer, closely related to floor wax. 

You might want to try dip dying for even coats.

Edited June 25 by Northmount
Fixed typo (relaxed > related)

[Timothy Lindblom]

5 hours ago, BlackDragon said:

Resolene is a protective finish and should be used to seal the leather. It's better to dampen the leather with water or use a little neatsfoot oil to make your dye even out. Also when adding your finish it is likely the color will change as well. It may become a deeper color and more glossy esp when using an oil or resolene. 

What Fiebings dye are you using, Pro or Ecoflo? If you're using Pro don't dilute with water, you can use alcohol.

Color matching can be very difficult, especially with something that has been in the elements and has darken over time, BUT it may be possible to get somewhat close. Also the leather you use for a test should come from the same leather you're going to make your belt because different leather may react differently to the same dye. Sometimes even using a different section of the same leather can change results.

To the color you showed try adding just a little bit of blue to see if it brings down the yellow. A few drops of blue goes a long way and you can always add more.

Just the regular Fiebings leather dye like in the photo below.

I find that coating first with resolene gets an even color that allows you to make circles with a dabber without some sections being darker than others. I think it's because the leather doesn't absorb nearly as much dye if it has been coated first. I haven't yet tried neatsfoot oil but I plan to pick some up. Would you suggest rubbing some on before the dye?

Edited June 25 by Timothy Lindblom

[BlackDragon]

1 hour ago, Timothy Lindblom said:

Just the regular Fiebings leather dye like in the photo below.

I find that coating first with resolene gets an even color that allows you to make circles with a dabber without some sections being darker than others. I think it's because the leather doesn't absorb nearly as much dye if it has been coated first. I haven't yet tried neatsfoot oil but I plan to pick some up. Would you suggest rubbing some on before the dye?

After I cut my leather I put some NFO and let it sit for an hour or so while I do other things. (I put just enough to change the color don't saturate the leather.)

I then dye the leather and let it sit until the next day so the leather dries completely. The only times I use a wool dauber is for edges or small projects. For larger things like bags, holster, belts, I use some thing larger like a wool pad or even a folded up sock, you can also dip dye

Then I buff the leather and add my finish, either Resolene (diluted 50/50 with water) or Fiebing's Leather Balm with Atom Wax

[Littlef]

A couple of suggestions.  (1) theres a good possibility you won’t find a dye to match.—- but if you buy two of three dyes you might be able to experiment mixing them to color match. ( same thing as color matching paint at the hardware store.). (2). I would recommend cutting the dye 50/50 with alcohol.  Apply light even coats.  When you dilute the dye, it’ll be a lighter shade.  You can go back and add additional coats to darken it.  If you dyed it full strength, and it’s too dark, theres not really a way to lighten it.  

[bland]

12 hours ago, Timothy Lindblom said:

Thanks. Would you coat the leather in resolene prior to rubbing on the walnut or chocolate dye? I do normally because it causes the dye to go on much more evenly but it also messes with the shade of the color a little.

No resolene or other finishes until the dye has penetrated the leather and dried.   Then I'll usually oil and let it even out before I apply a finish.  

[Cumberland Highpower]

I'd probably go medium brown with a couple drops of black to darken just a shade.   Dont' get carried away with the black.

There might be a little light darkening at play there as well.  (Comes of a bit of an oxymoron!).

 

I've always found brown dyes to need a little work to get an even shade.  Coats have to be even and given a little time to penetrate, and you may need to work in any excess that doesn't absorb just right to avoid darker spots.   Use "oil dye" the kind labeled nowadays as PRO dye.

Feibing's has an in house chemist, if you call, he'll call you back and tell you what to blend more precisely.

Edited June 26 by Cumberland Highpower

[Timothy Lindblom]

14 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

Feibing's has an in house chemist, if you call, he'll call you back and tell you what to blend more precisely.

Didn't know that. Thanks for sharing 

I ordered a bottle of Dark chocolate Fiebings Low VOC this morning. I'll report back once it arrives and let everyone know how it looks. I think with a deeper brown that doesn't have any orange tint, I should be able to dilute it and get a nice light brown. Thanks everyone for chiming in!