punching holes that are perfectly centered and evenly spaced

[RawhideLeather]

Hello all, I need as many opinions on this poll that I can get, so to those who take the time to give their opinion, many thanks!

I have been doing leatherwork now for about 40 years and I believe that punching holes that are perfectly centered and evenly spaced has always been one of the most difficult and painstaking parts of doing leather work, at least for me it has. There has been more than one project that the part I was the least satisfied with was the hole punching not being perfect. I either had to set a pair of dividers to lightly scribe a center line which I hoped wouldn't show later, or make a template which is tedious and then you would need more templates for different widths or maybe use a ruler to try and measure the center of a strap, etc. I then sometimes had trouble getting the hole punch centered over an awl stab mark and at best usually had to make several light "trial impressions" before I could get it close enough to punch. I thought that all of this was rather a PITA! If only there was something that would make all of this fast as well as being very accurate, easily adjustable and easy to use!

Well, to that end I put myself to work and have developed a system for punching small holes (up to 1/4") in strap goods that are perfectly centered and evenly spaced every time. I have been using this system with working prototypes that I made in my shop for a couple of weeks now and I am extremely pleased with it. Being a machinist for many years has certainly helped me accomplish the design and prototype completion. It is a 2 part hand tool system and works fastest in conjunction with a pair of dividers that most of you already have though they are by no means necessary to use the system. No worries about scribing any lines that might show up later however as the dividers aren't used for that. It quickly (only a couple of seconds) and easily adjusts to any thickness & width of straps up to 2" wide with the current prototype - (I could redesign the tool and make the width wider if there is a perceived need that I haven't considered...anyone? :scratchhead: ). It also works fast and easy for just punching perfectly centered holes over an awl mark anywhere on a piece of leather. It punches one hole at a time. The tools are precision tools and would be of high quality.

I'm sorry I can't go into greater detail but I want to protect my idea of course. I can say that the tools won't be cheap as they will be expensive to manufacture but then again how many quality tools are? I have thought about trying to make them myself but it took me quite a while to make the prototypes so I am thinking that if there is enough of an interest in this type of product that trying to get them manufactured would be a better direction to go in. I'm sorry but before anyone might ask I won't be able to offer any of these for sale any time soon.

What I need from you guys specifically is the answer to the following questions:

1) Do you think there might be a market for this type of product?

2) Assuming a market could be there, what price range do you think people would be willing to pay (come on now - be realistic - these are precision tools!). I know this is a difficult question to answer without actually seeing the product, I'm just trying to get a general idea whether or not it will be worth the trouble and expense to try to get it to market.

3) Do you think I should get a patent before I show it to any interested parties? I've read that they're pricey and aren't really much protection anyway and that they just allow you to legally sue someone which is very expensive. Of course if I didn't have a patent I would have them sign a confidentiality agreement.

4) Any advice as to how to proceed from here? I have no idea where to start though I have done enough research to know to be very leery of 'invention submission companies'. Should I try to get it marketed myself (I have enough savings to at least get started I would think) or should I try to get a large corporation interested?

5) Do you have any other input or suggestions? If so I would be very glad to hear them!

Thank you all in advance!

Sincerely,

Richard Holloman

Rawhide Leather

[electrathon]

A patent would be a good idea if you are planning on building thousands (or more) if something. In general, a basic patent will cost you about $10,000-$20,000. Not worth the expense unless you are confidant that you will sell enough of the tools to make a profit.

Keep in mind that you gave a very vague description for my next answer: I would be interested in a tool that will do this. Depending on the design and quality, I would say it wold be worth about $20-$50, depending on a lot of variables. I am not a profesional and in general, only have a few expensive tools.

[Regis]

I think this is a fine idea for a few folks (maybe hundreds).

#3. Patents are important for something that will have high volume or high price. If there is a market for as many as 1,000 of these, you won't have to worry about Chineese or others. If it were 100,000 or million, then you would need to worry about protecting.

If this wasn't available and I wanted something to do this, I'd simply take 2 strips of aluminum fastened together in the middle making an "X" with a small eyelet and accurately bend flanges on the ends (to lay against side of strap). The eye would need to have a little play so you could get a sissor action. The eye would always be centered.

But, I'd buy one if it was well made and not real expensive.

[pete]

I went online a few years ago and got a "dividing" or centering ruler from a art supply co. It was $2.99 plus shipping. Not to trash your idea (I have 2 patents for BIG bucks that never got off the ground!) but the ruler has a hole in the center and reads in each direction from 0-6".

I've never had a problem finding the center of ANYTHING 12" or less. Prick a hole in the center of the ruler and you are never more than 1/64" off.

Does this help YOUR situation or did I mis-read the initial problem?

pete

[bcurrier]

Were I looking for something like you describe, I'd probably buy the following (looks like the same machine sold by Weaver also).

http://randallmachine.com/catalog/product_...products_id=106

Expensive, though - $1,350 from Randall. I don't know how much Weaver gets.

[RawhideLeather]

Pete,

Yes, I have the centering ruler too but I find that to be slow & awkward to use as well and it is only good for straps. It also still leaves the task of centering the punch over the awl mark accurately which is greatly simplified by the other half of the system.

Regis,

Not a bad idea but the above reply to Pete still applies.

bcurrier,

That is a nice machine but it only works on straps and is geared towards very high volume and you are limited on the spacing between the holes. It is also out of reach price wise for most leatherworkers whereas my system would be in the high-end hand tool range price wise.

Thanks for the input guys! Keep it coming!

[Jordan]

I would probably be interested in most any tool that made a tedious and painful at times task easier. You may be interested in an air powered punch that a machinist made for Gremlin on the Chopperhandbook.net forum, apparently arthitis pains led to the design and BIGJIM sent it to him without any notice or cost that I am aware of. I don't know how well it works but I am sure Curtis would be happy to let you know. I believe curtis is also a member here. He had posted an inquiry about .45 cal conchos.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Jordan

[Dale]

Richard,

I'm a little confused. Your response to bcurrier indicates your idea works on more than just straps, but your initial post says you developed a system for strap goods. That's making it a bit hard for me to understand what utility this thing may be for me.

My initial thought was that you may be targeting too broad an audience with the poll. It initially looked like you were targeting folks that do a lot of production strap work. That's not me -- I can fumble through the few holes I need to punch. On the other hand, if this thing weren't too expensive, it might even be worthwhile for the few I do have to do. Now, if this thing opens up the possibility of creating new design elements in something other than straps, it might broaden your audience.

I didn't vote in the poll because I don't want to skew the results (though I'm still not sure what audience you're intending to poll). But if I were to vote, I'd need more info.

Dale

[RawhideLeather]

Dale,

This product would be targeted to the average leatherworker since they are hand tools that greatly simplify accurately punching smaller holes. While both pieces of the system would be used for strap goods, one of the tools can be used anywhere you need to punch an accurate hole. I did include the following in my description: "It also works fast and easy for just punching perfectly centered holes over an awl mark anywhere on a piece of leather. It punches one hole at a time."

I don't do a lot of strap work either but I punch holes everyday and I use this system everyday and now my holes are exactly where I want them to be with no fiddling around. I think it would pay for itself in saved time and convenience in fairly short order. Just to clarify, it wouldn't be cheap but it would be in line with other high end hand tools. Sorry for the confusion.

[pete]

I'de just like to find a good rotary punch!!!! I bought the heavy, TLF punch (years ago) and not only does the punch not line up with the anvil, the anvil is off center and pitted!

I've tried to bent the "clip" so that the punch clicks into position about 1/32nd later but alas... the spring steel can't be bent.

I ended up buying a set of single punches with a universal handle.

made in China off course--- GET IT TOGETHER TANDY!!!!!!

[cjbleather]

Richard, i tried to vote and, for some reason, it wouldn't accept my vote. So, I'll amke it simple by replying that I vote No. I would not buy this as I don't really see the need for it. The only holes that I punch are for rivets, screws, or for belts. I don't use holes for sewing or lacing. Carlb

[RawhideLeather]

cjbleather,

I also punch holes for rivets, Chicago screws, belts, straps, etc. and that's exactly what I use these tools for. That is primarily what these tools were designed for since they will punch up to a 1/4" hole. They were not designed especially for punching holes for sewing or lacing although you certainly could use them for that if you desired.

[esantoro]

I'de just like to find a good rotary punch!!!! I bought the heavy, TLF punch (years ago) and not only does the punch not line up with the anvil, the anvil is off center and pitted!

I've tried to bent the "clip" so that the punch clicks into position about 1/32nd later but alas... the spring steel can't be bent.

I ended up buying a set of single punches with a universal handle.

made in China off course--- GET IT TOGETHER TANDY!!!!!!

Pete,

I've had this exact same problem with the TLF rotary punch. HAve you ever tried returning it on the lifetime warranty?

Ed

[Leather Bum]

I did not vote because I do not have a need for something like this. About the closest I can think of what I'd vote would be that I would need more information. However, if I did punch holes a lot and found that a tool like this would really make the job easier, I think price would definitely not be much of a deciding factor -- unless it was really expensive, like $150+; then, it seems it would mainly be a matter of whether or not you would use it often enough. Basically, if the tool would be really useful (it sounds like it is in your situation), I'd say the high price for a good quality product made in USA is probably well worth it.

Also, has anyone ever seen or tried the C.S. Osborne self-centering punch set? It looks like the self-centering point would help in the situation of centering the punch over an awl mark, anyway. . .

I'de just like to find a good rotary punch!!!! I bought the heavy, TLF punch (years ago) and not only does the punch not line up with the anvil, the anvil is off center and pitted!

I've tried to bent the "clip" so that the punch clicks into position about 1/32nd later but alas... the spring steel can't be bent.

I ended up buying a set of single punches with a universal handle.

made in China off course--- GET IT TOGETHER TANDY!!!!!!

Heh, that sounds like regular Tandy quality! Far too many of their products are manufactured in China/Taiwan, IMO. I would guess that your rotary punch is made in Taiwan. . . And it still probably cost you ~$50. I would recommend that everyone stop buying these imported products -- absolutely regardless of the price.

I'm really not certain of the quality of either -- or even where they are made --, but maybe you check out the C.S. Osborne TL155 revolving punch or perhaps the Vergez Blanchard VB3.7731 & BIS revolving punch, both sold by Siegel of California.

Pete,

I've had this exact same problem with the TLF rotary punch. HAve you ever tried returning it on the lifetime warranty?

Ed

Wow, it sounds like this is a somewhat common problem. . . Yeah, Pete, maybe you can get TLF to at least give you a workable tool (though, unfortunately, still imported from China/Tawian).

L'Bum

[Kodiak]

Without seeing what this is, it is a little difficult to give an opinion. In woodworking, there is the good old dowling jig, that centers and squares your holes for drilling - can't see why it couldn't be used for a punch. The dowling jigs run from under $50 to about $100.

[cjbleather]

cjbleather,

I also punch holes for rivets, Chicago screws, belts, straps, etc. and that's exactly what I use these tools for. That is primarily what these tools were designed for since they will punch up to a 1/4" hole. They were not designed especially for punching holes for sewing or lacing although you certainly could use them for that if you desired.

Richard, I am not trying to knock your invention. I am just saying that, for the few holes that I do punch, I am quite happy with the results. Thus, I would not be interested in buying anything to make it better. Even if it did. I just don't do this on a production basis to warrant the need to attain speed. Carlb

[esantoro]

I did not vote because I do not have a need for something like this. About the closest I can think of what I'd vote would be that I would need more information. However, if I did punch holes a lot and found that a tool like this would really make the job easier, I think price would definitely not be much of a deciding factor -- unless it was really expensive, like $150+; then, it seems it would mainly be a matter of whether or not you would use it often enough. Basically, if the tool would be really useful (it sounds like it is in your situation), I'd say the high price for a good quality product made in USA is probably well worth it.

Also, has anyone ever seen or tried the C.S. Osborne self-centering punch set? It looks like the self-centering point would help in the situation of centering the punch over an awl mark, anyway. . .

Heh, that sounds like regular Tandy quality! Far too many of their products are manufactured in China/Taiwan, IMO. I would guess that your rotary punch is made in Taiwan. . . And it still probably cost you ~$50. I would recommend that everyone stop buying these imported products -- absolutely regardless of the price.

I'm really not certain of the quality of either -- or even where they are made --, but maybe you check out the C.S. Osborne TL155 revolving punch or perhaps the Vergez Blanchard VB3.7731 & BIS revolving punch, both sold by Siegel of California.

Wow, it sounds like this is a somewhat common problem. . . Yeah, Pete, maybe you can get TLF to at least give you a workable tool (though, unfortunately, still imported from China/Tawian).

L'Bum

siegel's has the 155 revolving punch on sale till the end of the year for $35, if still in stock. They have a cheaper one on sale for $7. I just may buy both. Anyone completely happy with the osborne 155 rotary punch?