Machine & Technics - Sewing wool fabrics with thick linen threads

[Ferreol]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting to think about a project that consists of sewing wool fabric (approx. 400gsm) with thick linen thread (diameter: 3mm).

The aim is to use linen for decorative purposes but also to avoid synthetics.

Given the thick diameter of the thread, I'm considering using an industrial leather machine.

I have read quite a lot of advice by @Wizcrafts, particuarly on the following post:

I would love your opinion on what you would recommend:

• Is an industrial machine (like the Singer 45K) recommended, or is it "too much"? My main challenge is finding a machine able to "accept" a 3mm or 4mm diameter thread, so I don't know if I should consider only heavy-duty leather machinery or if other options are possible.
• If the 45K or equivalent is too much, what "more gentle" option would you recommend?
• Would you recommend waxing the thread, specifically for sewing wool fabric?

Many thanks for your advice,

Clément

[Mulesaw]

@Ferreol 

Helle Clément, and welcome to the forum

I think the biggest challenge will be finding a machine and a needle that will accept a 3 mm thread.
I have an old Singer class 7, but I don't even think that that machine is able to manage a 3 mm thread. 

A problem is that the bobbin won't really be able to accommodate much, and I doubt that such a heavy thread will be able to go around the bobbin itself without getting stuck.

I just checked Gross Beckerts needle sizes for system 794 (the one that a Singer class 7 and others use), and they did have a needle called size 300, but it was incredibly expensive - around 20 times the price of a regular large size e.g. size 200. They wanted something like 420 $ for a 10-pack of needles.

My best suggestion would be to use a thinner thread (linen or cotton) and sew through the 3 or 4 mm diameter linen and through the wool fabric. This might not be what you are looking for, but it would enable you to fasten a 3 or 4 mm thread to your project.

Wool fabric of that wight, I think that you should technically be able to sew on a regular machine. But not with such a heavy thread.
As an alternative to linen, perhaps you could use silk? I think it is available in qualities that you can use on a sewing machine.

Best regards

Jonas

[Ferreol]

Hi Jonas,
Many thanks for this complete answer - and very useful advises.

Indeed, given this article (in French), they say the "early century machines (including the 45K) should be able to work with a 2,5-3mm yarn".
But, that means - yes - finding size 300 needles, and I had not considered that it would cost that much.
https://maxandshed.wordpress.com/2020/12/23/une-singer-45k-par-mscr/

In top of that, I have checked with French historical supplier (of linen thread) and their thickest quality is a 1,2mm - so, quite not the 3mm I have been considering at first.

The idea of sweing the thread with another thread can work, but I am not sure that the tension of the linen yarn will correct in this case.

I think I will consider two options for now :
. Hand sewing with a thick yarn (3-4mm).
. Working with a 1,2mm thread, and here maybe the job can be done on a regular heavy-duty machine?

I will make some trials!

Many thanks again for these good words.
Clément

[Mulesaw]

Hi Clément

I can see that they say that a class 45 will be able to handle 3 mm, I had no idea that they could go that high up in diameter. (Mostly guessing from the numbers since I don't speak French 🙂 )

Do you have any pictures of the yarn / linen thread that you intend to use? I am just curious if you are thinking something that is a bit flexible and pliable, or if it is very hard rolled and compact.

Depending on what you want to make, and how many of the same thing you will make, hand sewing is definitely an option. If there are some difficult shapes, machine sewing can be really difficult in my experince. But hand sewing can take a lot of time, and if you are planning on making wool ponchos for sale, I guess machine sewing will be the best for the business.

I am at work right now (at a ship), but I'll go home in about a week, and I can try to see how much I can wrangle through my class 7 Singer, just as an experiment. I have some heavy 6 strand linen thread, that I could double or triple to test. 
I just googled for some macrame yarn, and one type was available in 4 mm, but the most types were 2 mm in thickness.
https://rito.dk/jutesnor/32859-infinity-hearts-snor-jutesnor-hvid-2mm-100-meter-5713410015773.html
This one is jute, so not linen, but still a nature material. Some of theothers were cotton blended with 20% polyester.

I don't think that a heavy duty household machine will have a needle system that will be able to handle a 1.2 mm thread. So you will probably have to find some heavy industrial type sewing machine. Now I am by no means an expert in sewing machines, but please remember that just becasue the machine is an industrial type it might not be designed for large needles. Many of the industrial machines are for sewing fast in regular and heavy fabric like denim, but not with very thick threads.

Brgds Jonas

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Mulesaw said:

I can see that they say that a class 45 will be able to handle 3 mm, I had no idea that they could go that high up in diameter.

My understanding is the class 45 will take needles having a diameter of 2.5 to 3 mm not 2.5 to 3mm thread, reference ( https://maxandshed.wordpress.com/2020/12/23/une-singer-45k-par-mscr/ ). That makes sense as the class 441 machines take a 7x3 needles having a diameter of about 2.5mm. The max size of thread for those machines is usually around V415 thread which has a diameter of just a touch over .7 mm. 

A reference chart for the size of thread ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html ).

I know of no sewing machine capable of sewing a thread with a diameter of 2.5mm.

kgg 

[friquant]

This topic has inspired me to try stitching with larger cotton thread. I often use number 10 cotton yarn for practicing and prototyping, because I like the puffy look and it's available in bright colors. The next size up is "number 3", so I acquired a spool.

Here is some number 3 cotton yarn ("natural" color) through the needle. The thread has a lineal weight of 360 mg/m, so it would be TEX 360 if you applied that scale.

I used number 10 cotton yarn (black) in the bobbin, which weighs 170mg/m

 

This is on a singer 144W103 with size 180 needle.

Here is the number 3 yarn I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRLDP8CB