How to Dye Leather Black

[Shorts]

Here's an example of my solution and product. I put the wool into the vinegar on the 31st, so its been curing for 2 days. I dipped a strip of veg tanned leather in and left it for a minute or two, then pulled it back out, rinsed with cool water and there it is. No transfer of color when I rubbed it on the white papertowel. I'll get a pic of the strip when it is dried for continuity. But as you can see, wet, it is very dark black (looks like I dipped it in black ink).

After it dries, I'll take a pic both dry and with oil.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Shorts

[tonyc1]

Here's an example of my solution and product. I put the wool into the vinegar on the 31st, so its been curing for 2 days. I dipped a strip of veg tanned leather in and left it for a minute or two, then pulled it back out, rinsed with cool water and there it is. No transfer of color when I rubbed it on the white papertowel. I'll get a pic of the strip when it is dried for continuity. But as you can see, wet, it is very dark black (looks like I dipped it in black ink).

After it dries, I'll take a pic both dry and with oil.

What sort of wool?

[Duke]

I believe it would be steel wool.correct me if im wrong

[Shorts]

What sort of wool?

Steel wool

[tonyc1]

Steel wool

Oh, They get that from hydraulic rams don't they???

Couldn't resist it!!!

[Shorts]

Oh, They get that from hydraulic rams don't they???

Couldn't resist it!!!

So did I walk into that one or what??

Ok, here's a pic with some linseed oil (all I had on hand). The black has a grey tint to it as you can see, but the oil darkens it right up.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Shorts

[tonyc1]

So did I walk into that one or what??

Ok, here's a pic with some linseed oil (all I had on hand). The black has a grey tint to it as you can see, but the oil darkens it right up.

Gotcha, Shorts. Good to have a laugh,eh?

Tony.

[PapaWolf]

Ok so the way a read things (just want to make sure I don't screw it up here) If I want something dyed a good black color. I get a bottle of vinegar, add steel wool 00 or 000 (do you have to put the steel wool in the acetone to degrease it ?) Let it sit for about a week. Put it in a container, run my leather through it (Do I just run it throw or let it sit in it?) Then it will be a brownish color, then when I rub some leather oil into it it will turn black...Did I get that right? Then you can paint the areas if there are any and then what would you put on them leather to help make it water proof/resistant. I would mainly be doing that with saddlebags, bracers, and belts. Think I threw enough questions in there?

Papa Wolf

[Leather Bum]

In another forum I read that an unlined holster dyed with this solution can remove the blueing from guns. I would imagine neutralization after dying would help, but I do not know to what extent.

So does anyone know for sure if this method of blackening would be harmful to a gun (regardless of bluing, etc.). And if so, is there a way to get the same effect without the risk of harming the gun?

I'm basically wondering if this is a safe method to use on a gun holster. . .

L'Bum

[ChuckBurrows]

So does anyone know for sure if this method of blackening would be harmful to a gun (regardless of bluing, etc.). And if so, is there a way to get the same effect without the risk of harming the gun?

I'm basically wondering if this is a safe method to use on a gun holster. . .

L'Bum

It is perfectly safe - at least as safe leather and steel can be - I've used it for over 35 years on holsters and knife sheaths........no problems except for stupid peopl and unfortunately you can't fix stupid - one form of stupid being storing a gun/knife in weather wet leather.

[TwinOaks]

As posted in another thread on this same topic, I've done some experimenting with this concoction. Taking a sample of the 'vinegaroon', I added straight baking soda, and then a baking soda solution ( better reaction time when it's in solution) to the mix. There was almost NO reaction between the two. This leads me to think that all of the acid had been reduced (used up) in the reaction with the metal. As it's been sitting over a month, there is no more reaction to the metal, meaning that the conversion to ferric acetate is probably complete, having more iron than the acetic acid could cosume.

Also noted is that the ferric acetate seems to drive the tallows in the leather to the surface, leaving a fairly waterproof finish on it's own. I treated with Aussie and rubbed it in well, just to try to force some of the oils and tallows back into the leather's core. The leather still held it's shape (holster in 'more vinegaroon questions') and hardened as I expected it to.

Mike

[TroyWest]

I appreciate Chuck Burrows comments as his experience with this is far greater than mine. I have seen a number of old saddles dyed this way that are 60 to 80 yrs. old and have held up perfectly well. These old saddles are put together with steel screws and nails and covered in silver and they are simply not coming apart or causing damage that is apparent anyway.

I spoke with Shawn Farrow, Sean Farrow? I don't know how to spell it, anyway, a chemist for Sedgewicks in England and asked him about this method of dyeing leather. He thought it sounded like a great idea, stirred up the chemist inside him and said he was going to go home and make some himself. I also asked him about neutralizing with baking soda and he immediately said it wasn't necessary, just rinse in cold water. He started naming the ph of water and the ph of soda and frankly lost me in chemist language pretty quickly but again reiterated that rinsing in cold water was sufficient. He said they neutralize a lot of things at the leather plant in cold water only. I also asked if using distilled water was a good idea and he replied it too was completely unnecessary. The leather company uses the water that comes through the pipes. Just food for thought.

[Shorts]

Mike, Chuck and Troy, great information. Thank you for keeping the thread informed.

[jbird]

Ok so I tried the vinegar with steel wool and it worked great but the smell any way to help with that.

[TwinOaks]

When I did mine, the smell wasn't all that bad to start with. When I later heated the leather to harden it, almost all the smell left. It may be that the concentration of vinegar is different betwixt our mixes. Let the mix sit a week or two more and check it on a scrap. It appears that the longer this sits, the more likely the acid is reduced, and the smell probably will go away with it. If the leather does have the vinegaroon smell, just let it sit out a while and the smell should dissapate.

If not, well I'm sure you've gotten used to having dyes on your hands and clothes, so what's a little smell to get used to, right?

[Shorts]

I needed a question answered if possible: If I use vinegaroon over a halfway dyed black holster, will this affect 1) the vinegaroon and 2) the holster?

I'm thinking/hoping I can juts wipe the half-dyed holster down with the vinegaroon and it'll be finished. If it doesn't pan out, we'll, then I'll be able to answer my own question then

As you may guess, my black dye sabotaged a holster again. I've had it with black dye. I do have new leather waiting to be worked with. I'm betting that's part, take that back, most of the problem but I'm so put off by the dye that I'll punish it too >:

[TwinOaks]

Hi Shorts,

I don't think the existing dye will affect the vinegaroon at all. The vinegaroon reaction takes place inside the leather, as the chemicals react with the tannins. If anything, you might have to soak it through from the flesh side a little bit.

Here's a curious thought: When I used it on a holster, I noticed the finish was much more water resistant- like the vin. had pushed some of the tallows to the surface of the leather. I wonder if that same occurance will push some of the black dye out of the leather.

Something to note: On some leather I got from Beeza, which is almost white compared to some of the Tandy leather I got, the Vin. made the leather a really pretty blue. Not quite Navy, but close. It would appear that some tanneries use slightly different mixes, yes?

[Shorts]

Hi Shorts,

I don't think the existing dye will affect the vinegaroon at all. The vinegaroon reaction takes place inside the leather, as the chemicals react with the tannins. If anything, you might have to soak it through from the flesh side a little bit.

Here's a curious thought: When I used it on a holster, I noticed the finish was much more water resistant- like the vin. had pushed some of the tallows to the surface of the leather. I wonder if that same occurance will push some of the black dye out of the leather.

Something to note: On some leather I got from Beeza, which is almost white compared to some of the Tandy leather I got, the Vin. made the leather a really pretty blue. Not quite Navy, but close. It would appear that some tanneries use slightly different mixes, yes?

I think they do use different mixes. The blue I am getting is deep blue, similar to a Navy and I'd even say Indigo. On this batch of leather that's been giving me trouble, it was from Tandy. It was their 'mid grade' of that line. This time around, I bought the next step up. I'm curious to see what the problem, was, dye or leather, but I don't want to spend time on a lost cause lol As for the leather I do purchase, it's baby steps. I buy the best I can afford at the time but I don't want that to give me a bad product right off the bat.

I have noticed what you mentioned about water-resistant finish on the vinegaroon leathered. I have several test pieces from a whle back and I use them for shims or padding for various tasks. Well, I dropped a fair amount of water on the patch and rubbed it around. I wiped off andnoticed none of the water had soaked in. Not even a dark spot. I was impressed.

I've had my vinegaroon batch sitting for almost a day. I might give it a whirl even though it's still early in the curing. I'll definitely be sure to rinse and buff the leather to remove any dye residue that may seap out.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Shorts

[Shorts]

I got the holster vinegarooned and its drying now. THat thing sure takes a long time.

Some black dye did settle out in the several times dipping. But that was fine. Looks like I got really good coverage. Though throughout the process, even with this method, in the right light could see those darn blue areas. I still don't get it but I'm blaming the leather.

I also dropped in another holster and belt straps in the solution. The belt straps I cut from the older piece, the holster body from the ew leather. The old leather actually turned darker in the same dip. I'm going to redip them all again in the morning after the solution cures some more.

Quick question, when you guys add more vinegar to your supply, do you also add more nails/steel wool/steal to the mix to reactivate it to curing some more?

I'll have pics tomorrow of the saved holster. I hope it stays as dar as it is now. It looks pretty good.

[HandyAndy]

I just made up a batch 2 days ago and it already works like a charm!

his is a great process for me because i live in a small apartment and now I don't have to worry about passing out because the place smells like a chemical weapons plant.

I was wondering what you would get by using copper instead of steel? Maybe a green?

Edited August 3, 2008 by HandyAndy

[Noah]

When you say "then apply oil", what kind of oil? Thanks for the great tip.

[HandyAndy]

/\/\/\

I used Neatsfoot oil, looks great.

[Jimnx]

Ive been following this topic with much interest, so decided to have a go myself,

I got a bottle of clear malt vinegar and added some rusty nails, well over the past few weeks, i've tested it and its been getting stronger by the day.

Well I clean forgot all about it, then just now whilst me and my misses were watching a thriller on tv , we heard a the sound of a window breaking,, well we both jumped up right and searched the house for what we thought was someone trying to break in.. turns out my bottle of vinegar ,, exploded.. yep I forgot to release the pressure, and I guess it had been building up all that time. So in order to save you the benefit of my experience, maybe best to let the lid of now and then or put a pin hole in the cap. Anyway .. Night all.. Great thread BTW.. thanks for sharing this technique.. Im gonna start again in the morning !!

[HandyAndy]

I tried the baking soda dip in a bracer hoping that it would combat the smell of vinegar and it really hardened the leather. With out the baking soda the vinegaroon seems to soften the leather.

[BradB]

Can anyone post a finished piece that has used this process?