government handouts in Australia

[leatheroo]

With the tough economic times, our government has taken a bit of a different approach to the problem, they are giving money to the people not the big companies. Before xmas all families with kids receive $1000 per child as well as pensioners and carers. The reason being, if the general public have money, they will spend it, thus helping businesses across the country..i personally bought a new lounge suite. The government has just announced another round of handouts, due in march/april...$950 per household with income under $80,000 and $950 per child for families. This means i will get $2850 for my family, bring the total to $4850 that i will have received They have also offered large rebates for home insulation for low income earners so their power bills will be reduced. There are other projects similar to this but i cant remember them all at this time.

How does this compare to other countries efforts in these hard times? Do you think this is a good approach to the problems at hand?

Edited February 3, 2009 by leatheroo

[tonyc1]

About time they gave us some back! They've been taking it off us left, right, and centre for years. I'm glad to see they are giving something to Australian residents instead of propping up other overseas countries whose goverment ministers get the biggest cut out of what we taxpayers send them.

Tony.

[Bree]

I seriously doubt if these giveaways are anything other than deficit inflating bandages. They do little to solve systemic problems. Quite the contrary, I think they create many more problems then they solve. The kids will be paying for all the goodies that we purchase.

We have stimulus giveaways here in the States. I think it's just a legal way to buy votes.

My $.02.

[tonyc1]

I think you could be correct, Bree.

[Art]

Hi Roo,

I take another view of economic stimulus. I don't believe handouts really work, on the last round more people saved then spent dollarwise. Instead, target the industries needing help with indirect tax incentives.

For instance, lets take the auto and home industries as an example. If you purchase a new car (American of course, parts and car) you get a $2,000 tax credit. If you buy a house, $10,000 (the numbers might be different, but still have to be significant nonetheless).

But we will still have to do more to stimulate this economy. Just GIVE money to the individual States and tell them it has to be spent on finished physical projects (not burning it in the school systems) that will be complete start to finish in 6 months. Then make sure (with jail time if they don't) that they do it.

This package we have going through congress is just a bunch of ideological projects like health care and other stuff that won't do anything to help the economy, but instead just furthers a political agenda. Some of the spending is years from NOW when we need it. They can do all they want (that they can get through) in a separate bill that can be haggled over. They want to slip all this stuff through because they see this as a perfect opportunity to get it through without decent vetting because "we need this stimulus package right now".

My, My, maybe you shouldn't have asked me a question like that.

Art

With the tough economic times, our government has taken a bit of a different approach to the problem, they are giving money to the people not the big companies. Before xmas all families with kids receive $1000 per child as well as pensioners and carers. The reason being, if the general public have money, they will spend it, thus helping businesses across the country..i personally bought a new lounge suite. The government has just announced another round of handouts, due in march/april...$950 per household with income under $80,000 and $950 per child for families. This means i will get $2850 for my family, bring the total to $4850 that i will have received They have also offered large rebates for home insulation for low income earners so their power bills will be reduced. There are other projects similar to this but i cant remember them all at this time.

How does this compare to other countries efforts in these hard times? Do you think this is a good approach to the problems at hand?

[HarryB]

I think at this point in time. WE'RE SCREWED! I make enough to survive on so I make to much to qualify for any "programs" from the government. I agree; handing money to individuals only help a little but makes you feel good. BUT, giving billions to the big companies for "bailouts" doesn't help us at all unless we happen to be one of the big wigs with one of the companies. Then we get to spend millions on re-decorating our office, retreats and bonuses! DON'T GET ME STARTED!!! PS, I'm posting my basketweave stamping tutorial right after I calm down a little (just kidding). Hopefully I can figure out how to download a pictures.

Edited February 3, 2009 by HarryB

[Ian]

In the US, giveaways are handed out as payment to entities that work towards yoiur election. Many, many people worked hard to get this crowd elected, and now it's time for them to collect. It's not just unions and big companies and Hollywood that paid for this election, it's also the non-profits such as A.C.O.R.N. who registered over 700,000 new voters (so what if a good portion where fictitious) for Mr.Obama. So, of course, they'll be get multiple billions for their efforts. Hollywood gets to write off half the cost of making movies. National Public Radio gets a big thanks through increased funding, as does the NEA, and, of course there's plenty in there for the unions who gave almost a half billion to the Democrat Party. Just wait until you see what taxes, fees, penalties and fines they have in store for us to pay for it all.

[ferret]

Can't say I know a lot about economics, but then neither do the useless at westminster. Giving taxpayers money back to the taxpayers, so they can spend it to stimulate the economy may not work, but it's worth a try. Over here future generations will be paying taxes to pay for the bailout of the bankers that got us into this mess.

[electrathon]

The money that is "given" to people is borrowed money. You can not, and never will be, able to borrow yourself out of debt. The only system that has ever historically worked is cutting taxes so that people can spend their own money and all will prosper.

Dinner & Taxes

I was having lunch with one of my favorite clients last week and the conversation turned to the government's recent round of tax cuts.

'"I'm opposed to those tax cuts," the retired college instructor declared, "because they benefit the rich. The rich get much more money back than ordinary taxpayers like you and me and that's not fair.'"

"But the rich pay more in the first place," I argued, "so it stands to reason that they'd get more money back."

I could tell that my friend was unimpressed by this meager argument. So I said to him, "let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand."

"Suppose that every day 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59."

The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80. The first four are unaffected. They still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same percentage, being sure to give each a break, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so now the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.

Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"

"That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

Then, the nine men surrounded the tenth man (the richest one, paying the most) and beat him up. The next night the richest man didn't show up for dinner, so now the nine men sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short!

"And that, boys, girls and college instructors, is how America's tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more. There are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean."

[Washroad]

In the US, giveaways are handed out as payment to entities that work towards yoiur election. Many, many people worked hard to get this crowd elected, and now it's time for them to collect. It's not just unions and big companies and Hollywood that paid for this election, it's also the non-profits such as A.C.O.R.N. who registered over 700,000 new voters (so what if a good portion where fictitious) for Mr.Obama. So, of course, they'll be get multiple billions for their efforts. Hollywood gets to write off half the cost of making movies. National Public Radio gets a big thanks through increased funding, as does the NEA, and, of course there's plenty in there for the unions who gave almost a half billion to the Democrat Party. Just wait until you see what taxes, fees, penalties and fines they have in store for us to pay for it all.

Yeah, it's an obamanation, isn't it?

[tonyc1]

Yeah, it's an obamanation, isn't it?

You're quick!

Tony.

[HorsehairBraider]

With the tough economic times, our government has taken a bit of a different approach to the problem, they are giving money to the people not the big companies. Before xmas all families with kids receive $1000 per child as well as pensioners and carers. The reason being, if the general public have money, they will spend it, thus helping businesses across the country..i personally bought a new lounge suite. The government has just announced another round of handouts, due in march/april...$950 per household with income under $80,000 and $950 per child for families. This means i will get $2850 for my family, bring the total to $4850 that i will have received They have also offered large rebates for home insulation for low income earners so their power bills will be reduced. There are other projects similar to this but i cant remember them all at this time.

How does this compare to other countries efforts in these hard times? Do you think this is a good approach to the problems at hand?

How does my country compare? Well, in my country (the USA) traditionally this money has been handed out to corporations. The idea is the corporations will hand it out to their workers; what actually happens is, they hand it to the top 2% or so of their CEOs etc. These are the guys who already make as much in one year as "bonus pay" as I am likely to make in my entire lifetime. What the heck do they need all this money for?! Just how many homes, cars etc do these people need? However that is just how it's done.

Giving it back to the taxpayer is a good idea, I think.... It's your money, you earned it, why should they give it to someone else? It does not make sense, to me, to give it to someone else, especially someone who does not need it. But I am just a horsehair braider.

Rewarding people for being energy efficient strikes me as an excellent idea. We need to solve the energy problem globally. There are children coming after us, I guess I am crazy but I think we should think of them.

Is it a good approach? Well, I don't know. It has not been tried here, so hard to say. It's worth a try though. We've been doing it the other way for years, and that has not helped. Why not try something different? After all, the definition of "stupid" is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. But, you know, I am just a horsehair braider. So who knows.

[TrooperChuck]

If President Obama gets his "stimulus" package passed we will spend about 900 BILLION dollars to help big corporations, government pork projects, and somewhere along the way... the "little guy".

The problem is, WE DON'T HAVE 900 BILLION DOLLARS!

So, where will we get this money? There is no such thing as "free money". It has to come from someone. In this case, the USA will borrow the money from other countries. Japan, China, the UK and others. What happens when these loans come due? Who will be paying off those loans? Our children and grand children!

My other question is, "What happens if the USA can't pay off the loans?" What will China take from us if we can't pay these loans?

Instead of borrowing money from countries that probably don't have our best interests in mind, why don't we let people KEEP more of the money they already make? Cut the "Little Guy's" taxes, and he ends up with more money in his pocket. That money gets spent, thereby allowing businesses large AND small to employ people. Those employees, in turn, spend their money, and the whole thing perpetuates itself.

Cut taxes. Allow people to keep more of their money. Seems pretty simple to me... Unfortunately, our current President and the Democratic Party don't believe in this. So... Let's borrow more money from China! We'll let our children worry about paying it off.

[skipj]

i personally bought a new lounge suite.

If we did that in the US, we would probably only be helping China's economy cause that's where almost everything we buy is made. And I don't mean Walmart either. The last coffee maker made in the US is supposed to be Bunn but when I looked, the box said "assembled in Canada from improrted parts."

SkipJ

[$$hobby]

I guess its better then giving it to the bankers/CEOs/Political friends.

it would be interesting to see how it works out for you all.

[Art]

The Fed has been steadily pumping cheap money into the economy, which is by and far the best way to stimulate the economy. It will work, it just takes a little time, sometimes more than a little, to get the engine going again. This stimulus plan is just a big Red Herring, it may get the credit when we come out of all of this, but it is basically just an "opportunity" to spend on political projects, it really won't help the economy, just increase the debt.

Art

[TwinOaks]

Back in the early '90s, a well known brothel called "The Mustang Ranch" was confiscated by the government for tax evasion. Instead of closing it, the government kept it open (remember, it's legal in Nevada). Within just a short time, they had to sell it because it wasn't making any money.

Now, we're faced with a slow economy called a 'recession', and we're trusting the same government that couldn't make money with a brothel to fix it.

Does anyone need anymore explanation?

Back to Leatheroo's question: No, I don't think the bailouts are a good idea. Government controlled everything has been tried before and it's failed...several times. The companies that are "too big to fail" NEED TO FAIL. It makes room for entrepeneurs to grow their businesses. All the same, I'll take whatever money they tell me I have to, because I'll have to pay the taxes on it whether I take it or not.

(This has been rephrased to keep it family friendly)

Edited February 6, 2009 by TwinOaks

[Jordan]

The talking heads think that most Americans are morons and they can't comprehend anything so they do whatever they want. It's like the guy whose job it is to press the button that screws up your life just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel, now they have a guy that presses the make money appear out of thin air button so the rich stay rich. Now they want to track people with black helicopters for buying an adult beverage in utah. Hah hows that for the saying that paranoia strikes deep in the heart of man! They already put chips in cows pretty soon the mark of the beast will be on everyone forehead. Seriously though something is very wrong or some accountants are really in denial when everything is tanking but visa and mastercard are showing a profit! Bailout bad, reduced taxes good I don't know. What I do know is I can not pay all of my bills and the financial whizzes will not bail me out of anything! Seems to me the goverment is making the same errors that contributed to the great depression throwing made up money and a bunch of greedy sob's who need to suffer the consequences for thier actions. Who really needs corporations that are supposedly to big or to important to fail. The shiek that holds a controlling intrest in Citi should have to sell a couple of his yatchs like everyone else! But wait..... they are going to buy a new jet and rename yankee stadium to the tune of 440 million taxpayer dollars? OH Well, enough of my jibberish I better get back to some agressive leather pounding.

[MADMAX22]

The talking heads think that most Americans are morons and they can't comprehend anything so they do whatever they want. It's like the guy whose job it is to press the button that screws up your life just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel, now they have a guy that presses the make money appear out of thin air button so the rich stay rich. Now they want to track people with black helicopters for buying an adult beverage in utah. Hah hows that for the saying that paranoia strikes deep in the heart of man! They already put chips in cows pretty soon the mark of the beast will be on everyone forehead. Seriously though something is very wrong or some accountants are really in denial when everything is tanking but visa and mastercard are showing a profit! Bailout bad, reduced taxes good I don't know. What I do know is I can not pay all of my bills and the financial whizzes will not bail me out of anything! Seems to me the goverment is making the same errors that contributed to the great depression throwing made up money and a bunch of greedy sob's who need to suffer the consequences for thier actions. Who really needs corporations that are supposedly to big or to important to fail. The shiek that holds a controlling intrest in Citi should have to sell a couple of his yatchs like everyone else! But wait..... they are going to buy a new jet and rename yankee stadium to the tune of 440 million taxpayer dollars? OH Well, enough of my jibberish I better get back to some agressive leather pounding.

Your very right, if the company couldnt have enough strength to survive the beginning of the recession (not even a few months into it) then what makes anyone think they are good enough to deserve our well vested tax dollars. They should be treated just like everyone else and you know what they will fail, and in there place a new company or few or hundred will rise and well go thru the process of weeding out the ones that cant hack it. The ones that make it will hopefully have learned from the ones that failed and well have a better company providing a better product then we had before.

Oh and how many leather workers got a bail out. Did any of you guys fly to congress in personel jets and ask for a handout because its so tough.

O.T. I heard that Aussie just banned world of warcraft, most may not know what it is but its a online game. Apparently aussie government is getting really controlly as of late. Im sorry for you guys as well. Sounds like your losing all of your priveledges as well.

[tonyc1]

Your very right, if the company couldnt have enough strength to survive the beginning of the recession (not even a few months into it) then what makes anyone think they are good enough to deserve our well vested tax dollars. They should be treated just like everyone else and you know what they will fail, and in there place a new company or few or hundred will rise and well go thru the process of weeding out the ones that cant hack it. The ones that make it will hopefully have learned from the ones that failed and well have a better company providing a better product then we had before.

Oh and how many leather workers got a bail out. Did any of you guys fly to congress in personel jets and ask for a handout because its so tough.

O.T. I heard that Aussie just banned world of warcraft, most may not know what it is but its a online game. Apparently aussie government is getting really controlly as of late. Im sorry for you guys as well. Sounds like your losing all of your priveledges as well.

I've never heard of Warcraft!

[Ian]

Face it folks, we're sitting ducks. If they cut taxes or, God Forbid, sent checks to citizens, they find other ways of taking it back (the new $1.25 Federal tobacco tax is an example). In our lovely state of Massachusetts, our govenor and close friend of the president has raised 70 fees and penalties since coming to office and he's talking about raising them all again. Also in Massachusetts, I am bracing for a thousand dollar fine for not having health insurance because I make the obscene amount of 36 grand a year.

So, we need to shut up, remember our places and come to grips with the fact that the money we earn belongs to them, minus what they think we need to survive. Oh, man, do we ever need a second American Revolution!!!!

[TwinOaks]

pssst Tony, world of warcraft is for people that haven't discovered leather. They sit in front of the computer for hours at a time (which could wisely be used for leather projects) and to pretend to be someone they're not, battling imaginary bad guys.

Ian, I doubt you're the only one who thinks that.

[Art]

It also teaches teamwork, something no sane government would want to break out in the populous.

Art

pssst Tony, world of warcraft is for people that haven't discovered leather. They sit in front of the computer for hours at a time (which could wisely be used for leather projects) and to pretend to be someone they're not, battling imaginary bad guys.

Ian, I doubt you're the only one who thinks that.

[tonyc1]

pssst Tony, world of warcraft is for people that haven't discovered leather. They sit in front of the computer for hours at a time (which could wisely be used for leather projects) and to pretend to be someone they're not, battling imaginary bad guys.

Ian, I doubt you're the only one who thinks that.

I see. In other words, too much spare time on their hands!

Thanks for enlightening me.

Tony.

[sheowahya]

So... does $950 from the government sound good?

Would you like to get ANOTHER $1,425 from the Australian government?

Sound too good to be true?

Not so, depending on your income.

Under existing superannuation co-contribution rules, the Government fully or partly matches superannuation contributions made by eligible individuals on incomes of up to $60,342 for the 2008-09 financial year.

Those on $30,342 or less are eligible to receive the maximum co-contribution of $1.50 for every $1 contributed to super up to $1,000 with the maximum co-contribution capped at $1,500 each year.

This means that taxpayers earning under $30,342 could make a $950 personal contribution to their superannuation fund, which the Government would then match with a further contribution of $1,425 into their super fund.

OK... this is found money after all right? You weren't expecting it, and you've been living "ok" without it. So, why not take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity and put the $950 straight into your super account and collect the government co-contribution?

You do WANT to retire someday right???

Cheers

Marilyn