what are rivets for?

[MsDragonfly]

Rivets...where do i use them and why? Are they actually necessary?***Lisa

[Art]

Hi Lisa,

You can use them pretty much wherever you want, as a decorative or strength component. There are different types, like burr rivets which are a strength component and often used where glue won't do, such as in-skirt rigging hardware. Strength wise, I would say Brass Burr Rivets, Copper Burr Rivets, Tubular rivets with washers, Tubular rivets without washers, Tubular rivets with caps, then Jiffy Rivets. Pop (blind)Rivets go in there somewhere between Tubular and Jiffy. Of course a rivet is a whole lot better with glue backing it up.

Art

Rivets...where do i use them and why? Are they actually necessary?***Lisa

[MsDragonfly]

Art,

Thanks. I have been playing around with the tubular rivets and don't like the looks of them...the heads are flat and boring and the back side that star splits look crappy too, though they are strong not what I like.

Not sure what a burr rivet is?

I have the jiffy rivets from Ohio Travel Bag and was told the hand press from tandy can help set them so I bought the hand press tool, from tandy, to help set them better. Hammering them was giving me fit after fit....they would let loose, easily pull loose and/or I'd smash them all kinds of weird...LOL. Anyways, now i need help setting up this hand press.

But back to main topic here, on my sheaths and stuff...should I stop my stitching say about 7/16" from the top of sheath and place the 3/8" head sized rivets in there or sew to top and rivet along side of stitching? Hope I make sense. Sometimes I confuse myself...LOL!****Lisa

[tashabear]

Smash? There's your problem. You just want to tap-tap-tap on the setting tool; you can tell by the sound when the rivet sets.

[Daggrim]

I just finished a helmet using the Ohio Travel Bag jiffy rivets, rather than the Tandy style. I had problems with them not setting. Turns out the OTB rivet can be 2mm shorter than the Tandy rivets, and still work! The rivets were too long, altho they would've been perfect had they been the Tandy style. The shanks were bending over and the heads were easy to pull off. Luckily I had some shorter ones, and they fixed the problem. Still, they are not as snug as the Tandy's, so I hope it's just a learning curve thing.

I looked into using some REAL rivets, the copper burr, as more authentic and stronger, but for ease of use, and time involved, I stayed with the jiffy's. Later, if I go more for quality and authenticity, I'll revisit that idea.

Doug

[bruce johnson]

When you get to using the copper rivets, there is a guy who makes nice setter/peener/head domer sets in the common sizes. It is Bob Douglas. I hear he makes a nice awls hafts and awl blades too.

[Raven]

Best thing for copper rivets is a ball peen hammer, does a much better job than any other setter I've used.

[Luke Hatley]

DAGGRIM, there are some very Small Copper rivet made that would look great on your

Helments. sizes are 12s or 14s.........just a thought

[Daggrim]

Thanks for the ideas. Luke, would the small rivets go thru two layers of 12 oz leather? Is that a new avatar?

Dag

[TrooperChuck]

Daggrim:

I agree with Luke. Some #12 or #14 copper burr rivets would look great on your work. You can buy them in lots of sizes, but I buy the 1-inch length and use a pair of end nippers to cut them to size when I install them.

[Luke Hatley]

DAGGRIM.........YES,... THOUGHT I WOULD CHANGE UP FOR '09.

TROOPER GAVE YOU GOOD ADVICE ON GETTING THE LONG RIVETS,

THESE WILL WORK FINE FOR YOU. ALSO THE DIAMETER OF THE RIVET POST

IS MUCH SMALLER THAN THE SIZE 9'S.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Luke Hatley

[Raven]

I have some of the 12's, want a pic doing so you can see what they are like, fittet and loose? Ihave an old dog harness I assembled using them.

[Luke Hatley]

DAGGRIN........ANOTHER THOUGHT.......I cannot remember who sells them

but it would be easy to make if you wanted to make it. it is a DOMMING TOOL that will give you

a CONVEX HEAD ON THE HEAD OF THE RIVETS.. IF YOU HAVE A LINNING INSIDE THE HELMETS

THE LINNING WILL COVER UP THE BURR AND WHERE YOU PEENED THE RIVET.

BUT ON THE OUTSIDE... THE DOMMED TOP WOULD LOOK GREAT.

[Daggrim]

Oh oh. So they need to be peened on the inside? That'd be real tough to do. Just can't get two hands and a couple tools in there for some of the rivets.

How would it look if peened on the outside.

Also, yes , any pics of copper rivet work would be appreciated.

Daggrim

[Raven]

Peening is on one side only but you will ned a good hunk of something hard and heavy on the inside so you don't just knock it straight out, like a hammer head or a large cobblestone.

Will go take some pics...

[Luke Hatley]

OK PENNING ON THE INSIDE WOULD BE KINDA DIFFICULT... THEN IF YOU PEENED

THEM ON THE OUTSIDE IT WOULD BE VERY HISTOCRIAL LOOKING.

[Raven]

There you go, the long rivets are the 12's, the short thick ones are the 9's. The 9s come in different sizes, I chose the 1/2"

[bruce johnson]

I don't have any pics of the Douglas set, but they are a three tool set. The first tool is for setting the washer (bur). Basically a cylinder with a hole drilled in the end. The design of Bob's has a longer hole than the Osborne. You can use a longer rivet and not bottom out and bend the shank before the bur is set. It never fails, you need a 1/2" rivet and all you have left is a parts drawer of 1 inchers. After I clip the rivet to length when the bur is set, I lightly peen that over the bur with my ball peen hammer. The second tool in Bob's set has a concave area to round over the peen and and smooth it up. No little hammer dimples all over the peen. The third tool is to dome the rivet head. When you dome the head, you also will flattern the top of the peen on the bottom, and recess it slightly. I have attached some pics of the bur side and head side of some set copper rivets. The domed head doesn't show up real well, but you can kind of get the idea. Bob has the sets for numbers 8, 9, 10, 12, and 14 rivets I think. These are tools a guy can make, but for the time involved and equipment needed I buy them.

I usually set these rivets on my shoeing anvil. Some things are on a curve or I need to get inside of. On those I use an oval auto body dolly. The handle fits into the Hardy or knockout hole on a lot of anvils. It iworks kind of like a "stake anvil" that way.

[Daggrim]

Well Luke, Raven, Bruce, thanks so much for the help. I have a much better idea now of what copper rivets entail. It was difficult trying to put all this together from google searches. In the next month I plan to purchase enough rivets to make a couple helmets, and if I can do it, that'll be a big step towards making some premium grade helmets.

Dag

[Hennessy]

There you go, the long rivets are the 12's, the short thick ones are the 9's. The 9s come in different sizes, I chose the 1/2"

that rivet[complete]has as purty a dome on it as ever i saw,very effective.i've seen greenville saddlemakers hit em down with a hammer [wrong]mostly that rivet will let go under pressure eh.i've hand domed thousands but nonepurtier pete

[Hennessy]

Art,

Thanks. I have been playing around with the tubular rivets and don't like the looks of them...the heads are flat and boring and the back side that star splits look crappy too, though they are strong not what I like.

Not sure what a burr rivet is?

I have the jiffy rivets from Ohio Travel Bag and was told the hand press from tandy can help set them so I bought the hand press tool, from tandy, to help set them better. Hammering them was giving me fit after fit....they would let loose, easily pull loose and/or I'd smash them all kinds of weird...LOL. Anyways, now i need help setting up this hand press.

But back to main topic here, on my sheaths and stuff...should I stop my stitching say about 7/16" from the top of sheath and place the 3/8" head sized rivets in there or sew to top and rivet along side of stitching? Hope I make sense. Sometimes I confuse myself...LOL!****Lisa

on various stuff where i dont want contrast i've call'd on me shoe repair tricks,a domed brass clinch nail.sew th line in last hole put the right length brass clinch nail ,drive it on an anvil the underside burrs over tight and it holds,i wouldn't use it on a place that will have strain or pull tho,the nails come in various length at a shoe find outlet pete

[Daggrim]

Okay, so if I'm copper riveting leather that's between 1/2 and 3/8" total thickness , how long should my rivet be? Is it standard procedure to nip them off? And, how much rivet do you need sticking out in order to set the burr and peen the rivet? I'm gonna give this a try.

Dag

[tonyc1]

You don't want too much sticking out, just a Millipoof will do!!!

Tony.

[Daggrim]

Is that the same as a smidgeon? So then , is it SOP to nip them off to get them just right?

[tonyc1]

No, it's more like a terch.