tree fitting... I know, I know

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Greg,

The ground was quite level where the photos were taken and although I can't say i'm 100 percent sure about the horse being square, Joanne was squaring him up for photos so there's a pretty good chance he was standing square in all the above photos.

Darc

[bruce johnson]

Darcy and Joanne,

Thanks for the new pictures and a frame of reference. Looking back on the pictures from December with him outside, he does not look as downhill as the new ones. I am with Greg's question here - is he standing up square? The pics from the other day looking down his back with the tape I thought he looked asymetric, but it appeared maybe atrophied on the right side. It now looks like from these views the larger bulge on the left side is making it look that way. Any idea how long these swellings have been there and how much they are progressing or staying about the same? I sure didn't pick them out on the earlier pictures, but if they are an issue now and it would be interesting to get a feel for their progression. Any old pics of when you got him?

Any kind of exam ever been done on him? Did the physiotherapist who worked on him have any thoughts on these swellings? Has anyone else looked at him? Interesting, interesting.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Bruce,

I've posted another photo that was taken a second or two before the 2nd photo in my above post. I would say it is safe to assume that Traveller was standing completely square in both photos. The left side (near side)lump definitly was more noticably prominent than the right side (off side), this I am sure; I think my wifes finger hides this fact a little in this photo. While the ground in the barn seemed as level as could be, neither myself or my wife remember Traveller being as downhill as he appears in the first photo. This isn't to say he wasn't downhill at all, but that photo sure seems to overemphasize the notion. Perhaps Joanne could give a more realistic view on that as I have only seen the horse once. I don't have any knowledge as to the history of the lumps although it seems to me she mentioned that she didn't believe they were caused by any sort of trauma.

Darc

[greg gomersall]

Darcy if this horse is as downhill as the top photo seems to show was there considerable bridging when you set the varios trees on him? Greg

[Echo4V]

This may not work but I think it would be worth a try...

Try a saddle with gaited horse bars on him. Also, I think I heard that wade bars flare at the front (similar to gaited horse bars) so maybe that would work to keep them from digging into his "lumps"

If you are not needing to rope you could try a plantation saddle ( one of the older ones with a hard seat not the suspended seat). The reason I say that is they have the flare to the front of the bars but they also were made to sit further back on the horse so would have less of a chance to dig in there also.

David

[mulefool]

That second set of pics sure makes the lump on the near side more obvious. I built a saddle for a customer many years ago and he was having a problem with it on a new horse he bought. I went out to look at the horse and it looked alot like this horse as far as being really built up on one side. I suggested he consult with a vet or chiropractor to see if there was something he could do to even the horse up. He worked on some specific exercises and has been riding the horse with no problem for about 10 years now.

It would be interesting to watch this horse travel.

Chris

[Traveller]

I'm sorry, jdalberta1, I seem to have hijacked your thread! My apologies. Hopefully though you can see how difficult it is to manage a horse with a hard-to-fit back. Not only is it virtually impossible to find an off-the-rack saddle that fits but, as Darc pointed out, I'm also hesitant to spend money on a custom saddle only to find that it doesn't fit either, regardless of how good the tree and saddle makers are. And when a saddle doesn't fit this horse, he lets me know about it... he'll do a whole lot for me, so long as it doesn't hurt. And I can't say I blame him for that!

Thanks for posting the pics, Darc. I've posted a couple more taken of him. The full side view is on what I hope is level ground and the one of his back with the stick bridging from his whithers to his croup was taken in the wash rack, so it may have a bit of a slope to it but at least it's a solid cement footing.

Traveller is definitely built downhill, though not extremely so; just your average quarter horse downhill build. As for his shoulder, the physio (amongst others) have noted that his left shoulder is bigger than his right. When she first worked on him, she noted that he was out in his left hip (can't remember precisely where), right shoulder and left neck. Since she's been working on him, his body has come more in line, though his neck, just below the poll and more on the left than the right, is still out.

I don't think the right side is atrophied, Bruce; I think it's more a case of the left side being more built-up. I had a vet out to check him his movement out but on that day, he didn't crank his head at all and she was very, very impressed with the way he moved. She said he moved better than most quarter horses she sees and that I should be very pleased with him. And I am... except not so much the next day when he went back to cranking his head again! (I've had his teeth done.)

My regular vet has seen him several times in the four years I've owned him and while she was the first to note the difference in his left and right shoulders, she's never expressed any concerns about his conformation (it was a different vet -- one who was already at the barn that day for other horses and whom I know has a good reputation for lameness issues -- who checked his movement out).

He travels well in a straight line and isn't inverted, though when lungeing to the left he has a tendency to crank his head around from time to time. The head cranking rarely happens under saddle, even when I do smaller circles, so rider support might make a difference (I ride with light contact, not cranked in). At the canter, he'll drop his shoulders a little in the corners, more when going to the right than to the left, though I can often help him pick them up and eventually, he'll manage to get around the corner without dropping.

I haven't had the physio out for a couple of months now but plan to do so when she's back in town next time. I also plan to start riding with an instructor who can hopefully help me straighten Trav's body out through riding exercises (gotta get a saddle for that to work out...).

Thanks again, everybody, for your input. And if anyone knows of a good, used saddle that might fit this horse, I'd be happy to try it out. I can pay shipping to Blaine, WA, so long as you don't mind if I send it back to you (at my cost, of course) should it not fit. In the meantime, there's an older Silver Supreme saddle at my barn that I'm able to borrow from time to time, and so far, it's not bothering him. It's not the best saddle to sit in and I can only use it when the woman who owns it isn't sitting in it herself, but at least I can ride. And that's great!

Joanne

[colttrainer]

Looking at those photo's I would think it would be best to figure out why he has developed in this way. No sense spending money on a saddle to fit him, only for the area to shrink at later date due to what ever reason or worse yet the other side bulk up the same way. I would think that the vet should be able to help figure this out. You may try contacting the previous owner if that is an option and see if they can give you a complete medical background (injuries etc.) this may help the vet come up with an answer.

[Saddlebag]

Is it just me or do those bars appear to be all of the same angle, just different style?

[Janice]

Hey Joanna, its Jan from yarrow.

My old mare in her later years was lookin alot like your guy.

I ended up borrowing Sara's treeless endurance , and went up the mountain.

The results were so impressive, I ordered one some time real soon after that.

Mares shoulders were completly free, she wasnt sore, I was compfy, it all just worked.

I am not a treeless fanatic, my reg saddles for my three horses now are: crates circle y and f.eamor.

Treeless is an alternate lifesyle, so to speak, but if you want to try mine, just come out for a ride here.

I do have an arena, or Rons indoor, and of course the trails. Just let me know.

This one was made buy Dana, of nickers saddlery.