Vinegaroon tutorial

[Wayward Shrimp]

Ferrous sulphate will do the job but it is NOT good for the leather...the sulphate form of iron increases the risk for what is known as red rot many fold....

Not all iron in solution is the same....use what you like but beware of the problems or potential problems....what may be safely used on wood is as noted in that article is not necessarily safe to use on leather or recommended.......and if all he's getting is a "filthy black mess" he did something wrong and vinegar black never goes off after a few days as he stated the ferrous sulphate mix does....

and whay folks today are in such a goldarned hurry still escapes me.......

Wow, thank you for that info!

I've no intent to lead anyone astray! D:

I'm not looking so much to save time, but space. I don't have much room for my supplies/chemicals/tools and any clutter I can reduce is good.

One day I hope to have a shop or something, but now I just have a old entertainment center.

[ChuckBurrows]

Didn't think you did...and I fully understand about space saving -

you can use Ferric Nitrate - available in crystal form http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Ferric-Nitrate-100g-P6384.aspx - mix 10:1 with distilled water - 10 parts water to one part crystal start there and experiment to get the right mix, but the vinegar black is still IMO the best for leather overall with less potential problems......

[lazybum]

Thanks for the info chuck!

I guess ill stick to the old method. Seems safer. Started brewing a batch yesterday. Dipped a piece of scrap in it today and it turned pitch black! I think it will be good to go in a week or two.

[ChuckBurrows]

On thing to be sure to do when making this is:

1) Use a closed container with only a small vent hole - it's acid fumes that aids greatly in completely dissolving the iron

2) Once all the iron that can be dissolved is dissolved (you can always add a bit more vinegar too if need be) - open the container for a day or two to vent off as much of the remaining gasses as possible

3) Strain and bottle it up

To get rid of the odor not only use the baking soad wash, but after hang in front of a fan or outside in the fresh air...than I like to apply some Montana Pitchblend - this contains pine rosin and thus leaves a good odor behind....

[Luke Hatley]

God damn this method might just be a winner

. No smell no need to wait for weeks...

Wonder if all iron tablets will work?

LAZYBUM WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE...........

Edited March 1, 2011 by Luke Hatley

[lazybum]

LAZYBUM WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE...........

woah sorry if I offended anyone

I had always thought of that phrase as any exclamation as offensive as "holy smokes"

Edited March 1, 2011 by lazybum

[jasonsmith]

Does it matter what grade steel wool you use? They have fine and coarse steel wool. Don't know if one is better than the other?

[marine mp]

Jay,

From what all I've read, the finer, the better. Meaning the more "000" the better. I use steel shavings, so I cannot speak from experience. Semper-fi Mike

[c4ck4]

I just wanted to add on my results and notes. I bought some really cheap steel wool from the dollar store, x12 pads for only $1 is a steal! They didn't have any oil on them and dissolved wonderfully.

My first batch completely failed because I got some stainless steel wool pot scrubbers that were practically impervious to the vinegar.

I have a complete tutorial posted on my site at http://outlandforge....ing-vinegaroon/

This kind didn't work AT ALL:

This stuff worked really really well and dissolved quickly:

Filtering very little metal out:

Results after neutralizing pH in baking soda and quick rinse in tap water:

[rccolt45]

I have a complete tutorial posted on my site at http://outlandforge....ing-vinegaroon/

Thanks so much for a great tutorial. I have my first batch brewing now. May I ask what the procedure is for neutralizing. Do you let the vinegaroon dry then mix backing power and water and apply it like a toothpaste?

[c4ck4]

I'm basically flying by the seat of my pants here. What I did so far was guided by reading little bits about it here and there online and putting it all together. I documented what I did in case it works as well for others. I heard that the acidity of the vinegaroon could damage the leather so after a quick soak in the 'roon I just mixed up some backing soda and water and swished it around in there for a few seconds until it stopped bubbling. The idea being just to limit the contact of acidity on the leather to as short of a time as necessary to complete the blacking.

I only dunked the leather in the 'roon for probably 30 seconds, and I swirled it around a bit to be sure that there were no air bubbles blocking the surface. Lots of air bubbles out of the leather because its very porous, so after a quick dunk and swirl it was as black as it would get. Then basically repeat in the baking soda solution, wash off the soda in tap water and call it good.

Visually my results look good to me, I haven't tested for longevity and strength though.

Here is the final cuff from the same piece of leather shown in my previous post. The full grain part is as black as my Fiebing's black dye. The edges and under side are a bit more blue/grey looking though.

[rccolt45]

Looks good to me. I have had alot of problems with black dye lasting so I am excited to try this.

thanks Rob

[lazybum]

I'm basically flying by the seat of my pants here. What I did so far was guided by reading little bits about it here and there online and putting it all together. I documented what I did in case it works as well for others. I heard that the acidity of the vinegaroon could damage the leather so after a quick soak in the 'roon I just mixed up some backing soda and water and swished it around in there for a few seconds until it stopped bubbling. The idea being just to limit the contact of acidity on the leather to as short of a time as necessary to complete the blacking.

I only dunked the leather in the 'roon for probably 30 seconds, and I swirled it around a bit to be sure that there were no air bubbles blocking the surface. Lots of air bubbles out of the leather because its very porous, so after a quick dunk and swirl it was as black as it would get. Then basically repeat in the baking soda solution, wash off the soda in tap water and call it good.

Visually my results look good to me, I haven't tested for longevity and strength though.

Here is the final cuff from the same piece of leather shown in my previous post. The full grain part is as black as my Fiebing's black dye. The edges and under side are a bit more blue/grey looking though.

You might want to try soaking it in the roon for a longer time

Usually you will be able to get a deeper black throughout with a longer soak

Edited April 28, 2011 by lazybum

[c4ck4]

Thanks I'll give that a try. I was planning on experimenting with it a bit and trying some different things. I've been really busy with other things lately so this hasn't been a priority.

[KAYAK45]

Awesome tutorial! Would love to see this pinned please :D

I'll second the pin idea. I came back three time until I actually "got IT"

Everybody for years will need this one!

[Horseshoe]

well I've made my very first batch of the ole roon, and it is very dang cool. I also did an experiment with brass shavings that I have access to, the result is that it did nothing no breakdown of the brass at all and no coloring of the leather.

[CTS]

Question on this subject. I think I understand the process and the acid levels, etc. It looks great from what I have seen. Some of you mentioned you have used this method for years. Have you had any feedback from any clients or do you have an article that you have had for many years that was colored with this method?

I want to know (1) Does it do some long term damaging effects to the leather (like over 5-10 yrs does it break down the leather fibers or cause excessive cracking, drying)?

(2) Does the black color fade over the years - especially when exposed to light or elements?

I did not notice any products that had top coats added. Does it work well with finishes in case a client wants a Satin finish over the black?

Thanks for all input and ideas!

~CT

[rccolt45]

I mixed up a batch and it came out great. The black color is awsome and easy to work. My only question is what do you do about the Vinegar smell. I applied it on Saturday and then rinsed off with water and two days later it still has a vinegar and metal smell to it.

Also do yu seal it with anything?

[ChuckBurrows]

Question on this subject. I think I understand the process and the acid levels, etc. It looks great from what I have seen. Some of you mentioned you have used this method for years. Have you had any feedback from any clients or do you have an article that you have had for many years that was colored with this method?

I want to know (1) Does it do some long term damaging effects to the leather (like over 5-10 yrs does it break down the leather fibers or cause excessive cracking, drying)?

(2) Does the black color fade over the years - especially when exposed to light or elements?

I did not notice any products that had top coats added. Does it work well with finishes in case a client wants a Satin finish over the black?

Thanks for all input and ideas!

~CT

I've been using it for over 40 years on both my own gear as well as customers which has given me plenty of feedback.

No on both questions as long as you treat it regularly like you do any other leather - keep it clean and condition it as needed.

I almost always use a top coat - any of the regulars such as Tan Kote, Bag Kote, etc. work just fine.

[rccolt45]

I've been using it for over 40 years on both my own gear as well as customers which has given me plenty of feedback.

No on both questions as long as you treat it regularly like you do any other leather - keep it clean and condition it as needed.

I almost always use a top coat - any of the regulars such as Tan Kote, Bag Kote, etc. work just fine.

Chuck what about the smell how do you get rid of it?

[Spinner]

Any thoughts on larger projects? I don't necessarily have the space for a huge dunk tank but many of the projects I do are 24" x 18" before wet forming. Can the 'roon be brushed/padded on? if so, will it yield even results as long as I soak the whole piece as evenly as possible?

Thanks,

Chris

[Wishful]

Anyone know if you can buy the vinegaroon anywhere?

[drphil]

Any thoughts on larger projects? I don't necessarily have the space for a huge dunk tank but many of the projects I do are 24" x 18" before wet forming. Can the 'roon be brushed/padded on? if so, will it yield even results as long as I soak the whole piece as evenly as possible?

Thanks,

Chris

Hey Chris, I have used 'roon on a number of projects by brushing on liberally. You want to be sure that the entire thickness of the leather is wet with the 'roon. It will darken the piece all the way through. That way if you need to do edges later the leather will still be black under the removed corner. If you dont add it on liberally enough this might not be the case, too light and a scratch or two might show a different color. The leather will reach an even dark color when the 'roon has reacted with the tannins in the leather - this means no streaking and no uneven spots. Of course I suppose if you got a strangely tanned piece with more tannins in one place etc. perhaps you would have streaking in that case. I would think that would be a very rare thing! If the leather is just not getting dark (black) enough it may be because there are not a lot of tannins in your leather piece. Many people fix this problem by first running their leather through some water that is heavily impregnated with coffee or black tea. Like really strong coffee water, it will add more tannins which will result in blacker leather. Many people add this as a pre-step in the whole 'roon process. I haven't needed to do that though. I have always got good results without adding tannins. Sometimes I get more of a dark blue/grey color but this has always gone black after oiling.

Anyone know if you can buy the vinegaroon anywhere?

I am not sure you can buy vinegaroon anywhere. You can however buy the chemical that reacts with the leather tannins to produce the black color. Powdered 'roon if you will. The reaction is basically between the tannins and lron acetate. You can buy some Iron (II) acetate and mix with some water and you will have basically the same thing as homemade 'roon.

[markush]

I am not sure you can buy vinegaroon anywhere. You can however buy the chemical that reacts with the leather tannins to produce the black color. Powdered 'roon if you will. The reaction is basically between the tannins and lron acetate. You can buy some Iron (II) acetate and mix with some water and you will have basically the same thing as homemade 'roon.

That powder will run you about $30.00 for 5 grams. I have no idea how much vinegaroon solution that 5 grams would make but I'm thinking not all that much. A gallon of vinegar is under $2.00 and a package of steel wool is $3-4, I believe. I personally could make a lifetime supply of vinegaroon with $30.00 worth of vinegar and steel wool

[mkleathers]

Im brewing my roon as I.. type . One question for long time users who use it for knife sheaths (hope Chuck reads it ). Is there any way that vinegaroon might damage the steel? Should I take any additional precautions, (

eg. mentioned soda) or finnish it differently ?

Mat