Kevinjohnson Report post Posted March 8, 2009 Hey guys and gals, I have just recently registered and figured I might throw out a question or two. First, I would like to compliment the individuals that run and maintain this site. The format is very profesional, informative, and easy to navigate. It is also neat to have thousands of years of knowledge gathered in one spot willing to give advise and shop secrets to individual looking to better themselves and their work. Most everyone seem courteious and sincere unlike many other forums I have visited. My question is about the Cyclone stitcher. I'm wondering if there are a few of you out there that might know something about this machine? I recently talked to Connie Nagle, A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE, and he described the machine as the Rolls Royce of stitchers. He also added that it was excellently engineered and that it sounded like no other when it sewed. There seems to be a little mystery surounding this machine being that there were only 400 or so produced and not a lot of info on it. I would also like to see a picture of one if any of you have one. I would also like some feedback on the Campbell/Randall machines versus the Landis 3. I've heard that Don King said that the Randall produced finest stitch out of all of the needle and awl machines. Thanks for you time, Kevin Johnson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted March 8, 2009 Hi and welcome to the forum, Kevin. Art, who is one of the moderators here, is also VERY knowledgeable about sewing machines and has been an incredible resource to this site. Be looking for his response to your question, I'm sure he'll be along before too long. Me? I'm still new to machines so I'm not much help on this subject, but I just wanted to extend a "welcome". When you get a chance, drop a post over in the member gallery; not everyone reads all the sub-forums, and it's a good location for your intro....More folks to meet! Glad to have you here with us, grab some coffee and hang out for a spell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted March 8, 2009 Hi Kevin, Connie would know more on the Cyclone than anyone I know, someone was rebuilding them several years ago and I think the price then was around $12,000 as much as 2 completely refurbished Campbells. The Cyclone Stitcher, like the Cyclone Roller Coaster is pretty much lost to history, pictures are even hard to find. The Randall is a clone of the Campbell, for Campbell's existence, you could only lease the Campbell, you could buy the Randall. The Landis #3 had a 2 1/2 inch deeper throat than the Campbell and was a little different in design, not a lot, parts do not interchange well between Campbell and Landis #3, however Campbell and Randall are almost identical. Ron at Ferdco might be able to shed a little more light on the Cyclone, let us know what you find out. Art Hey guys and gals, I have just recently registered and figured I might throw out a question or two. First, I would like to compliment the individuals that run and maintain this site. The format is very profesional, informative, and easy to navigate. It is also neat to have thousands of years of knowledge gathered in one spot willing to give advise and shop secrets to individual looking to better themselves and their work. Most everyone seem courteious and sincere unlike many other forums I have visited. My question is about the Cyclone stitcher. I'm wondering if there are a few of you out there that might know something about this machine? I recently talked to Connie Nagle, A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE, and he described the machine as the Rolls Royce of stitchers. He also added that it was excellently engineered and that it sounded like no other when it sewed. There seems to be a little mystery surounding this machine being that there were only 400 or so produced and not a lot of info on it. I would also like to see a picture of one if any of you have one. I would also like some feedback on the Campbell/Randall machines versus the Landis 3. I've heard that Don King said that the Randall produced finest stitch out of all of the needle and awl machines. Thanks for you time, Kevin Johnson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevinjohnson Report post Posted March 9, 2009 Art and Twinoaks, Thanks for the nice intro. and the response. I look foward to visiting w/ everyone and maybe showing a little of my work. Thankyou, KJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted March 9, 2009 Funny you should ask, RDB posted about Craigspal, and one of the first things I found was a sale of a leather and nylon dog collar factory which included a Campbell Cyclone. I guess it's supposed to be a pretty rare machine. Search for Salvex, which is an auction co. and it is item 182936913. There will be a bunch of thumbnails and the Cyclone is fourth row from the bottom, first picture on the left and next to it is a close up of the label. The auction is already over, whoever bought it probably has no idea what they have. Dan Preston, Owner,editor ,publisher of Shop Talk was offering a reward just for a picture of a machine he doesn't believes exists and I think it was the Cyclone, but I'm not going through my back issues to find out. By the way, I have a t-shirt that says "Brother Reverend Kevin Johnson", just something a friend thought of one day, and she went right out and had it made. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5shot Report post Posted March 17, 2009 the Campbell and was a little different in design, not a lot, parts do not interchange well between Campbell and Landis #3, however Campbell and Randall are almost identical. I suppose it gets down to semantics, but the Randall Union Lockstitch is not really a clone of the Campbell. The Campbell is an Awl Feed machine, the Randall is a Needle Feed machine. The parts don't necessarily interchange either, as they look nothing alike. You can see the differences between all the machines here... Needle & Awl Machines Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I suppose it gets down to semantics, but the Randall Union Lockstitch is not really a clone of the Campbell. The Campbell is an Awl Feed machine, the Randall is a Needle Feed machine. The parts don't necessarily interchange either, as they look nothing alike.You can see the differences between all the machines here... Needle & Awl Machines 5shot a Randall and a Randall/Union are 2 different machines and a Randall IS an Awl feed machine. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D.A. Kabatoff Report post Posted March 17, 2009 5shot thanks for the link about the different machines...very informative! Greg is correct about the Randall being an awl feed machine... I have one in front of me and it's definitly the awl that moves the material. Darc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted March 17, 2009 5Shot, Don't know about semantics, when we speak of a Randall or Randall Lockstitch we are referring to a clone of a Campbell, a Union Lockstitch or a "Union" always refers to a different machine, indeed with needle feed. Then there are the Champions and the American Straight Needle "ASN" which are totally different animals. I've owned everything above except the Union and a Cyclone, I kept the Campbell and I'd take a Cyclone in a heartbeat, don't want a Union. What do you have? Art I suppose it gets down to semantics, but the Randall Union Lockstitch is not really a clone of the Campbell. The Campbell is an Awl Feed machine, the Randall is a Needle Feed machine. The parts don't necessarily interchange either, as they look nothing alike.You can see the differences between all the machines here... Needle & Awl Machines Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I have owned a Union, a Randall, and a Landis 3. A Union is real finicky. Designed for sewing harness 90 mph and it does it well. I have built many saddles with them but it really is a high speed machine. You can move the machine 2 ft and you have to readjust everything. Your question was comparing the Randall and the 3. I agree with Don King. The Randall made immaculate stitches. It also seems to sew lighter weights better than the 3. I actually got my 3 from Don King. The advantage to it is a deeper throat than the Randall and it sews saddles well. If I were choosing between the Randall and the 3, I would get the Randall. They just tend to cost more. I think Darcy must have a 3 and a Randall. Which do you prefer Darcy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevinjohnson Report post Posted March 18, 2009 This question is for Troy and Greg, both having a sense of humor. Would a left nut be to much to give for a Cyclone? I've found one but think that the left huevo and some boot might not quite be enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 18, 2009 I dont know if you've made that offer but that would be way out of my price range. I would even go back to hand sewing.............everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 18, 2009 My wife would gladly offer up ol lefty but I'm kinda partial to him beings we have been together all our lives. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevinjohnson Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Your probably right Troy. I was just thinking that because the berries hadn't been getting much work lately, I might trade one off. I've decided to renig on the offer. Thanks for setting me straight. Go'n to pull out my stitching horse and wax up some thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D.A. Kabatoff Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Hi Troy, I wish I could answer which I like better but I don't have the Randall running yet. I got it in a deal when I bought one of my Landis 3s... drove all the way to Minnesota to pick it up and when I got there the guy offered me the Randall for $700s... just couldn't refuse that. The needle bar is tight and the machine looks almost complete but needs a spring above the thread tube and a table and motor as well. I'm not sure if you are familar with the action of the machine but maybe you could answer this question... When I hand crank my Landis 3, it turns over very smoothly with the weight of the wheel. When I handcrank the Randall, it goes about 3/4s of the way around and then tension increases and feels like it's going over a hill and then releases. The tension increases at the point that the awl moves the material and releases when the awl starts to rise upwards. I'm curious if this tension is normal for this kind of machine or if I have some adjustments that need to be made. The only time i've actually seen one of these machines running is at a booth Campbell-Bosworth had in Sheridan and their machine was of course hooked up to a motor. I've attached a couple of photos of the two machines I got in Minnesota. Darc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Darcy, I would say that is pretty normal and that was a great deal. It 'll be worth 5 or 6 times that when you get it running and you'll love it. Troy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Report post Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Gosh you guys. I'm afraid with all this talk about Landis 3's and Randals an such. I thought you fella's may like to see what a really nice pair of machines look like.... They're a bit like women, you have to treat them right and they run like a top... Besides they're alot quieter than running machines built with the bullet style shuttles... Edited March 18, 2009 by Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 18, 2009 I have two Randall high lift machines, a Union Lock, and a Landis 3. All are great machines! The stitches are consistently a bit better from the Randall than the Landis; especially on the bottom. Troy is right about the Union lock... seems to be a 1 man machine. If you curse it daily, it works better! The Union is the best for high speed and long distance stitching. It is a needle feed and the stitch length can vary if the operator is not careful. The Landis 16 is also a needle feed machine. Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyc1 Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Gosh you guys. I'm afraid with all this talk about Landis 3's and Randals an such. I thought you fella's may like to see what a really nice pair of machines look like.... They're a bit like women, you have to treat them right and they run like a top... Besides they're alot quieter than running machines built with the bullet style shuttles... You really can't miss where to put the OIL can you? Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Gosh you guys. I'm afraid with all this talk about Landis 3's and Randals an such. I thought you fella's may like to see what a really nice pair of machines look like.... They're a bit like women, you have to treat them right and they run like a top... Besides they're alot quieter than running machines built with the bullet style shuttles... Yes Bob but the secret is that the bullet shuttle type will pull a tighter stitch when set up properly. That is part of why these newer machines cannot hold a candle to them. Greg P.S. Can you spell your name backwards? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Greg, these old landis machines do pull a tight stitch. even though they are NOT the bullet type shuttles. They're almost exactly the same setup as the landis 12 thats been in service sewing soles/souls for decades now. Only one turn on the tension bar and it breaks 346 thread. I don't know if we can go much tighter than that. I know these newer single needle machines made in China CANNOT AND NEVER WILL HOLD A CANDLE to the needle / awl machines. It's just that alot of folks today won't take the time to learn how to setup-maintain these machines. The pro 2000 Ferdco I got years ago in early 90's has been a good machine, always sews when I go to work with it. Just can't sew as pretty as the landis 16's standing next to it. Exactually, it looks pityful by comparison. Robert............ No Greg, I cannot spell it backwards... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D.A. Kabatoff Report post Posted March 18, 2009 I was talking to Connie at Campbell-Bosworth this morning about some parts to get my Randall going and he mentioned a machine so rare that he hasn't even seen one. Anyone ever heard of or better yet seen a Bosworth machine? He said it would look similar to a Cyclone (not exactly the same) and has a needle and awl as well as a closed eye needle. Not sure how all that would work together but would sure be interesting to see one. Darc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Hi Darc, I saw a nasty old picture taken off a newspaper ad. The detail was terrible, but there it was, so we know it existed. In the search for Campbell heads to refurb, you would think Connie would have dredged one up, but the scarcity may have something to do with their success? Art I was talking to Connie at Campbell-Bosworth this morning about some parts to get my Randall going and he mentioned a machine so rare that he hasn't even seen one. Anyone ever heard of or better yet seen a Bosworth machine? He said it would look similar to a Cyclone (not exactly the same) and has a needle and awl as well as a closed eye needle. Not sure how all that would work together but would sure be interesting to see one.Darc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Yes Bob but the secret is that the bullet shuttle type will pull a tighter stitch when set up properly. That is part of why these newer machines cannot hold a candle to them. Greg Greg, My Union Lock will pull a much tighter stitch than the Randall or Landis 3. It has a tendency to cut through the leather. Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D.A. Kabatoff Report post Posted March 18, 2009 Hi Darc,I saw a nasty old picture taken off a newspaper ad. The detail was terrible, but there it was, so we know it existed. In the search for Campbell heads to refurb, you would think Connie would have dredged one up, but the scarcity may have something to do with their success? Art May end up being like Sasquatch... few blurry photos and some good stories... Darc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
