Neatlac Replacement

[gtwister09]

Ed,

Ditto to what Keith said...

P.S. Bearman, If you have a change of heart, I would love to have that recepie to make some bearlac. I assure you there will be no "politically correct" legal liability from me!

Regards,

Ben

[whinewine]

David,

The only Saddle Lac products that I have experience with are only available in spray cans. They don't wipe well and they leave a heavy "painted on" plastic look.

Keith

I don't know if it comes in anything other than spray. Most of what I use I spray anyway, and I do use saddlelac, but I still prefer neatlac (spray) over the saddlelac (but it's not bad). I prefer a shiny finish over a satin or dull finish anyway, so if you don't like shiny, you wouldn't like saddlelac, nor would you like neatlac either.

russ

[TomSwede]

Ed,

Ditto to what Keith said...

P.S. Bearman, If you have a change of heart, I would love to have that recepie to make some bearlac. I assure you there will be no "politically correct" legal liability from me!

Regards,

Ben

Ditto Keith and Ben!!

I switched to leather sheen also from Fiebings wich I apply with dauber and cloth but gotta be more careful and watch out for lift. Leathersheen takes buffing nicely too wich I felt was harder with saddle lac AND being oversensitive to allergic with strong odours I'm happy without the saddle lac. My nose can't take it.

Tom

[ryano]

Has anyone tried Weaver's Top Coat #200?

"This solvent-based formula offers a high gloss, waterproof finish. Seals veg and chrome tanned leather for effective waterproofing. Simply spray on."

That's what the add says anyway. I have never used it.

Edited April 2, 2009 by ryano

[rookie]

I saw a post on a woodworkers forum that mentioned Zinsser Quick 15 as a replacement for Neat Lac. I have not tried it yet. I was wondering if anyone has heard this before. I am going to try it, I just need to go get the stuff.

[Maeve]

I've been experimenting with some finishes since I DO NOT LIKE RESOLENE. Since I am also a woodcarver, I have a number of GOOD wood finished around here to experiment with while not incurring additional expenses. Yesterday I braided up a "test bracelet" and put Deft Brushing Lacquer Satin wood finish (NOT water bourne) on it. I only used 1 coat for the first test. It dried in a few hours although the smell lasted till today. I put it on last night and have worn it continually. Okay ... I WON'T wear it in the shower ... but I have worn it while cooking, doing dishes (I have a dishwasher so it's only rinsing), feeding horses, etc. On Day 2, it still looks perfect, resists water and has developed a nice natural shine. There is no flaking of any kind ... but then again ... I only used one light coat that I rubbed on with t-shirt material. My next test will be in a week or so when I will apply two more coats to see what happens. I could wear multiple bracelets (is that a fashion statement?) to do the tests.

My other thought is to use the shellac mix (French polish) with some Neatsfoot added. I'll have to experiment with the % though. I'll see if I have time to photograph my test bracelet with the Deft and post it here.

Love and Light,

Maeve

[barra]

I don't have a huge call for laquering my leather but when I do I have been using shellac, cut fairly thin with metholated spirits (denatured alcohol). It is cheap as is the metho so one bag of shellac flakes and a bottle of metho lasts a very long time. I make it up as I go in small batches as I am led to believe that pre mixed has a shelf life of about 1 year. I have found that depending on how thick/thin you mix it you can get a high gloss or a mellow satin finish. I started using it when I worked out that traditionally in Australia and I assume elsewhere, that whipmakers use shellac as a finish. I then researched uses of shellac and found it has been used for a multitude of items like glazes on confectionary, pharmaceuticals and leather dressings. My initial thought was well if it is used on whips which surely get a lot of punishment and a lot of flexing then it is worth a try. To date I have been getting good results. I have also applied the shellac and when dry I have attacked my test peice with a mallet and nil cracking was evident.

I also on occasion apply it to the edges of my strapping goods as a final coat after burnishing to get that factory made look that some people want. It also works well as a resist and has a low toxicity level.

Barra

Edited April 3, 2009 by barra

[julian]

On eBay a 95% unused Gallon of NeatLac. "Buy It Now for $40"

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEAT-LAC-LEATHER-FINIS...p3286.m20.l1116

[gtwister09]

Weaver's Top Coat #200 is actually Leather Coatings Top Coat #200. Sorry haven't tried it.

Regards,

Ben

[gtwister09]

In doing some research into the Neat lac replacement, there is some interesting information that I have been able to gather so far. I have visited with some manufacturers and even some of the paint engineers that I worked with in the past. I am still in the process of gathering more information, brochures, technical data sheets, MSDS sheets and some more detailed information on lacquers for comparison.

I have been able to locate the three different MSDS's for Neat lac over the years.

In reviews of types of lacquers, there are generally only 3 types.

1. Nitrocellulose
2. CAB
   
3. Catalyzed
   

Nitrocellulose is the original type used by Neat lac (per the MSDS and brochures from James Day, the manufacturer). Catalyzed lacquers are rarely used except for specialty purposes where they want the ease of nitrocellulose but want some additional properties also. These always contain some acid catalyst for curing. Sometimes they contain urea and other compounds for these properties. Therefore they have an relative short shelf life. Since they are never used on leather (or I should say most people haven't used them on leather), I won't provide additional information on them.

Looking at the pros/cons of Nitrocellulose and CAB shows a couple of things that are interesting to say the least.

Nitrocellulose

Pros for nitrocellulose is that it is an inexpensive material that flows easily and was originally used as a shellac replacement. It sprays well and can be easily built up with bonding to previous layers. It is also moderately resistant to water, heat, abrasion, and certain solvents such as alcohol

The cons are that it can crack when bending and has a tendency to yellow slightly over time (some mixtures have reduced - NOT ELIMINATED that to a degree).

CAB - Cellulose Acetate Butyrate

CAB-acrylic lacquer dries to a less brittle and more flexible film than that of nitrocellulose lacquer. It has the same general features/characteristics as nitrocellulose but doesn't have a tendency to yellow over time.

One of it's inherent flaws is that it is not quite as clear as nitrocellulose. Therefore many times an acrylic resin is added to compensate for this and gain both benefits of not yellowing but gaining the clarity back.

In woodworking, CAB-acrylic lacquer is often used as a protective topcoat over colored pigment nitrocellulose lacquers to make them wear better and to enhance their resistance to scratches.

Solvent Note

Another very interesting thing that I have found in reviewing many of the "wood" lacquers is that several of them HAVE LESS solvents in them than Neat lac does. Obviously there were some that had more but that surprised me especially since many thought that the specific "wood" ones would drive the lacquer deeper into the leather due to the solvents. On the other hand there are several that line up on the MSDS lists almost verbatim with Neat lac.

Another item is that there is some misunderstandings in describing airborne pollutants, VOC (volatile organic compunds) and carcinogens. For instance looking up Toluene, it is an airborne pollutant but not a carcinogen. Falling on one list doesn't automatically mean that the materials fall into the other lists. Many of the MSDS lists will list if the material is on the carcinogen list. There are various places that will list carcinogens. One of them is a potentcy list at Berkeley. Berkeley Potency Toluene. There are many others such as OSHA, NIOSH, etc that you can also look on.

Will post some more when I get some more information.

Regards,

Ben

Edited April 8, 2009 by gtwister09

[Go2Tex]

...... Just go down to Home Depot or even Walmart and you can get contact cement that smells bad, works great and costs a lot less..............Kathy

Smells Bad? What smells bad? I actually have learned to really LIke the smell of cement. In fact, I can't hardly wait to get back out to the shop so I can sniff some more of it. heheh

[hidepounder]

Smells Bad? What smells bad? I actually have learned to really LIke the smell of cement. In fact, I can't hardly wait to get back out to the shop so I can sniff some more of it. heheh

I'm with you Brent...when the Barge can isn't strong enough I open up my can of Neat-Lac too!

[Maeve]

In doing some research into the Neat lac replacement, there is some interesting information that I have been able to gather so far. I have visited with some manufacturers and even some of the paint engineers that I worked with in the past. I am still in the process of gathering more information, brochures, technical data sheets, MSDS sheets and some more detailed information on lacquers for comparison.

Great information, Ben! Thanks for all of your work! I just pulled up the MSDS sheet on the Deft Brushing Lacquer. I'll post it here for comparison. I'm not a chemist (not even CLOSE!) but some of this looked promising to me.

Component CAS Number Weight % Reporting Ranges

ALIPHATIC HYDROCARBON 8052-41-3 10-30

ISOBUTYL ISOBUTYRATE 97-85-8 10-30

METHYL n-AMYL KETONE 110-43-0 7-13

2-BUTOXYETHANOL 111-76-2 7-13

VM & P NAPHTHA 64742-89-8 5-10

n-BUTYL ALCOHOL 71-36-3 3-7

ZINC STEARATE 557-05-1 3-7

XYLENE 1330-20-7 1-5

ISOPROPANOL ANHYDROUS 67-63-0 1-5

NITROCELLULOSE 9004-70-0 1-5

ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.1-1.0

ISOBUTYL ALCOHOL 78-83-1 0.1-1.0

ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.1-1.0

Well that chart totally fell apart on me! Sheesh. Hope it's legible!

[kevinhopkins]

Actually, neat lac was made by LCI for tandy. Tandy, in their infinite wisdom, discontinued it. LCI calls it Clear Lac. I'm going to be carrying it in qts. They didn't make the original neat lac, but they did make it for the last several years. James B Day co. made the original, I believe.

Kevin/springfield leather

[hidepounder]

Actually, neat lac was made by LCI for tandy. Tandy, in their infinite wisdom, discontinued it. LCI calls it Clear Lac. I'm going to be carrying it in qts. They didn't make the original neat lac, but they did make it for the last several years. James B Day co. made the original, I believe.

Kevin/springfield leather

I love this place! I learn something new everyday! But I guess this means I didn't need to spend all my money buying up everything in town...oh well...I've got it now! Thanks for the info, Kevin, I didn't know about ClearLac until the other day and certainly didn't know they were the same thing! good to know.

Bob

[gtwister09]

Kevin,

Could you send me the Clear lac MSDS? I have requested it from LCI bit have not received one yet.

Tandy/Leather Factory sent me 3 MSDS's from various eras. Both of the older ones list James Day as the manufacturer and none of them listed LCI here in Dallas as a manufacturer. The new one lists James Day as the distributor and Custom Pak in Germantown, WI as the manufacturer.

Regards,

Ben

[esantoro]

Has anyone tried Weaver's Top Coat #200?

"This solvent-based formula offers a high gloss, waterproof finish. Seals veg and chrome tanned leather for effective waterproofing. Simply spray on."

That's what the add says anyway. I have never used it.

I have a gallon of the tc 200. I experimented with brushing it on, which is not a good idea, as it streaks. I have not yet experimented with spraying it on. So far, I haven't really needed it yet.

You do need to use it in a very well ventilated area.

ed

[esantoro]

I have a gallon of the tc 200. I experimented with brushing it on, which is not a good idea, as it streaks. I have not yet experimented with spraying it on. So far, I haven't really needed it yet.

You do need to use it in a very well ventilated area.

ed

I just now dipped a piece of veg tan in the TC 200. Once it dries I will put some water on it and see what happens. We will be able to compare the results with the experiments I ded months ago with various waterproofers/conditioners.

NB: Of all the conditioners, solutions, dressings, finishes I have, this TC 200 by far has the strongest fumes. I would never use this for medium scale production on up without a specialized ventilation system.

ed

[esantoro]

This is from LCI's website:

TOP COAT #200

A solvent-system, semi-gloss, waterproof/protective coating. Excellent

adhesion and flexibility. Spray application. If thinning is desired, use

LCi Thinner only.

*

TOP COAT #300

A solvent-system, high-gloss, waterproof/protective coating. Excellent

adhesion and flexibility. For best results, spray lightly. If a higher

gloss is desired, repeat application. Use as is. Do not thin.

*

FLAT COAT

A solvent-system, flat-stain, waterproof/protecting coating. Ideal for

upholstery leathers and for top coat finishes where a gloss is not desired.

May be mixed with any of the above LCi Clear Coatings to achieve various

degrees of gloss or flatness. If thinning is desired, use LCi Thinner only.

*

LEATHER KOTE *

A lustrous acrylic top coat finish for new and worn leathers. Excellent

adhesion and flexibility. Restores the texture and enhances color depth.

May be applied manually or by spray. For best results, use as is. If

thinning is necessary, use water only.

*

POLY KOTE *

An excellent waterproof top coat finish and protective coating. Poly Kote is formulated from a blend

of very tough, yet flexible acrylic resins that achieve a high gloss and

excellent durable wear. Excellent scuff resistance. Widely used on factory

tanned leathers--smooth and exotics. Spray as is, do not thin.

The Poly Kote above IS Weaver's Tuff Kote. One of the others listed above is a pigmented version of Tuff Kote/Poly Kote. Weaver carries such in black only. If you wish to do the dance of Carlos, you might be able to get custom colors, though note that even the pigmented version of tuff kote/poly kote is not meant to dye leathers, but I imagine to put a translucently pigmented finish on leather of the same color.

The Leather Kote above seems to be sold by Weaver under the same name.

ed, who seems to be accosted by the apparition of Carlos/LCI wherever he turns.

Edited May 25, 2009 by esantoro

[Tkleather1]

Okay so I cant find any behr clear lac. would any wood clear laquer work or do I not want laquer I need more help here. some one please step in and help me out I am getting very frustrated.

[Cliffy]

ST Leather has Neat Lac in quarts that has their private label on it. Since I am not a chemist, I can't be sure if its exactly the same stuff, but it sure smells the same and goes on the same way. I would assume the original manufacturer that made it for Tandy is private labeling it for leather distributors. Neat Lac spray in cans is still available from Zack White as well, and it is the real Tandy packaging

So there is still hope for us that like to do it "old school", no need to go with this treehugger stuff they"ve been ramming down our throats

Clif<<<<<<<<<hates Eco Flo------long live spirit dyes and Antique pastes

[iwannabeacowboy]

I also found it at ST-Leather http://stleather.com/2008-P35.html I just got 2 spray cans and 2 quart cans. It's becoming very hard to find, but I really like the finish, the smell is just a bonus.

[hidepounder]

I spoke with folks at LCI some time ago. They assured me that their ClearLac is the exact same product as NeatLac. They mainly sell large quantities of leather finishes to industrial mnanufacturers, but supplied Tandy with NeatLac for approximately 15 years. They were laughing about what to do with all the NeatLac labels they have left over. ClearLac is available through Kevin at Springfield Leather and Panhandle Leather in Amarillo.

Hope this helps.....

Bobby