dye and neatsfoot oil ???

[carljc72]

I apologize in advance if this has been covered...but...

What I have read so far in different posts is that neatsfoot oil is great to use for the natural "look". Does anyone use neatsfoot oil along with dyes? And if so, in what order do you apply? (dye, oil, then finish, etc...). Thanks for the help in advance.

[hidepounder]

Yes...dye, oil, then finish. You don't hve to use Neatsfoot oil....olive oil works great also. Be sure to let your oiled piece sit for a day before applying the finish.

Bob

[carljc72]

thank you very much

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

What are you using the oil on? It works well on cowboy rigs or knife sheaths, but it is not a great idea to use on more modern holster designs (those that rely on tight boning and material stiffness for retention). The oil can soften the leather in the long run, affecting the holster's retention, as well as the ability to stay open and allow easy re-holstering. 'Just something to be aware of.

If you are using the oil on another project, by all means carry on (and show us some pictures when you're done).

[ABC3]

The biggest problem I find with neatsfoot oil is that it darkens the lighters leathers. I used some on a tan holster & ended up with a dark brown. Is there anyway around this.

[pete]

sure is. Bick's #4 won't darken the leather, will protect it, and mixes with dye wonderfully. Almost everything that I make is Bick's and chocolate or walnut dye.

I have an 8 oz bottle and pour in the Fiebing's directly until I get the color I want. Sponge it on and rub in until it gets smooth. About 20 seconds. It's like putting on a leather balm- soaks in and leaves it smooth and flexible.

I don't even use neats anymore as the Bick's seems to fully restore the moisture after I tool and dry.

pete

[ABC3]

Pete,

I buy Fiebing's Oil Pro by the Gal & I would want to mix the entire Gal. How much of the 8oz Bicks #4 do you feel it would take. I'm trying to get to a Saddle Tan color but even with Atom Wax & finish coat it all turns darker.

[pete]

haven't figured that one out yet. I don't do projects larger than say an album (12X24"). I do mix 1-2 "niquil" size caps full of chocolate to a bottle and it lasts me quite a while.

Wish I could help more.

Call Kevin Hopkins at Springfield leather(800.668.8518) in MO. Bo Riddel, the in house bootmaker, was the one who turned me onto Bick's years ago. It's all that he uses too.

pete

Edited April 20, 2009 by pete

[ABC3]

Pete,

Will do & many thanks....

[carljc72]

What are you using the oil on? It works well on cowboy rigs or knife sheaths, but it is not a great idea to use on more modern holster designs (those that rely on tight boning and material stiffness for retention). The oil can soften the leather in the long run, affecting the holster's retention, as well as the ability to stay open and allow easy re-holstering. 'Just something to be aware of.

If you are using the oil on another project, by all means carry on (and show us some pictures when you're done).

I was thinking of using it on holster straps to keep them flexible and keep them from getting brittle.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

That would probably be a good idea, and it might reduce the possibility of cracking in the future. I would just try to keep it off other areas if possible. I also use Bick 4 leather conditioner (for my belts), also as a result of Bo's recommendation.

[McJeep]

okay, newbie question here ;0)

Dye, oil, finish? I thought things like the conditioner were for maintenance "of" a finish? I'm a bit confused as to how I could get a "finish" to adhere to something that's been oiled?

I really need to find a book on how to dye and seal etc leather LOL

[Billsotx]

okay, newbie question here ;0)

Dye, oil, finish? I thought things like the conditioner were for maintenance "of" a finish? I'm a bit confused as to how I could get a "finish" to adhere to something that's been oiled?

I really need to find a book on how to dye and seal etc leather LOL

You'll find as many ways, methods, and techniques as there are people using them and they're all the best - just ask them ... lol!

Develope your own through trial and error, expect something different if you use something different (any one item, especially the leather - leather just ain't leather) and keep good notes. If you buy econo leather from the variety suppliers expect something different everytime you buy. Good luck, and share some pix when you get something worked up. We're all here to learn.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Billsotx

[McJeep]

Hehehe, as a matter of fact I just tried neat laq over tandy all in one on the weekend cuz I'd heard of someone doing it. Used a cloth to rub the neatlaq on as I'm not a big fan of leather under glass (thick coat that ya get with a brush). Didn't even notice while I was doing it but I guess I rubbed hard enough that I stripped some black dye off the high spots. Looked at it later and am still deciding whether to redye or if I like the weathered look as a finish product ;0) I'll post a pic later - need mo coffeeeeeeeee

Edited April 21, 2009 by McJeep

[Lobo]

Neatsfoot oil is the classic, natural finish for leather. It infuses the fibers, fills the voids, and provides some flexibility, thus avoiding cracking, splitting and other problems. It provides long-term protection to the finished piece.

That said, there are other effects possible. First, excessive neatsfoot oil will leave any piece limp and useless, so one should avoid over-applying. One application, fully absorbed by the piece, should be sufficient for a lifetime of wear. Second, neatsfoot oil will definitely darken a dyed piece, there is no avoiding this, so one must experiment with the dying and oiling to achieve the desired result. Dark brown dye can be turned almost black by neatsfoot oil. A tan dye can be turned dark brown by neatsfoot oil.

All said and done, I still stand by neatsfoot oil as the standard for a quality finish to a piece that can be expected to accept the stresses and strains of daily use for a lifetime. All of my holsters, belts, and pouches receive a treatment of neatsfoot oil in the finishing process so that they have a degree of flexibility without having to worry about cracking or splitting, and the leather will withstand moderate infusions of moisture without having to worry about mildew or mold.

By the way, the sequence (in my shop) is (1) dye, (2) oil, (3) final finish (usually Bag Kote, occasionally other products, depending upon degree of luster desired). I prefer a rich, deep, eggshell luster to a high gloss. Sometimes Mr. Customer has another preference, which I try to accomodate.

Many of the old-time classic saddlers used nothing but neatsfoot oil. Others used neatsfoot oil, heated until a small lump of beeswax infused with it, then rubbing the warmed mixture into the freshly-formed leather, resulting in a warm and subdued satin sheen.

There is something to be said for a holster that retains its shape, as wet-molded and formed. There is something else to be said about leather that is left without protection against moisture absorption from the atmosphere and wearer's body. And leather left without significant defenses against moisture absorption will almost certainly develop stress cracking, surface splits, and/or mold and mildew problems. I try to make holsters that will outlive their owners, and I have several long-term customers still using holsters that I made back in the 1970's.

My personal favorite finish? Easy! After forming and thorough drying, apply neatsfoot oil with a brush or swab ONE TIME ONLY, allowing to settle into the leather overnight, then apply Fiebings Bag Kote using a swab or sponge, allowing the leather to absorb all it will take. Set the finished product aside for an hour and you will have what is shown in the attached photos, a classic oiled tan finish. Never the same from one piece to the next, difficult to replicate when making a set from different cuts of hide, but always warm and deep in appearance, nice to hold in your hand, and capable of lasting a lifetime with little care.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Lobo

[ABC3]

Lobo,

This is very interesting. I too have played around with neatsfoot oil & was unhappy with the darkening effect.

How did you get the quality of color (natural-tan) that you posted? I have tried the oil on tan dyed leather as well as undyed w/ bad results.

I like the effect you have created. What is your process?

Thanks so much for your input.

[Lobo]

Lobo,

This is very interesting. I too have played around with neatsfoot oil & was unhappy with the darkening effect.

How did you get the quality of color (natural-tan) that you posted? I have tried the oil on tan dyed leather as well as undyed w/ bad results.

I like the effect you have created. What is your process?

Thanks so much for your input.

Thanks, Tom. The process is pretty simple, following it can be difficult at first. There is a tendency to try and make the color you want happen, rather than just letting it happen.

When neatsfoot oil is first applied to the piece it is absorbed rather quickly at the surface level, causing a very dark blotchy looking color, and absorption appears to be very uneven, especially at edges and seams. The key is to then set the piece aside, at least overnight. This allows the oil to "settle" in, migrating through the fibers and finding a "level" (even distribution throughout), and the color/shading will mellow out to the level seen in the photos that I included above. Then your final finish can be applied (it will accept Bag Kote, Resolene, Leather Sheen and most others that I have tried).

To apply the oil I use a 1-inch paint brush, dipping the brush into the neatsfoot oil about an inch or so, then immediately swabbing onto the leather, transfering just as much as the leather will take in ONE AND ONLY ONE application.

The finished result continues to hold its shape very well. The holster will flex sufficiently to conform to the contours of the wearer's hip and belt. Belt slots and loops will flex readily. The weapon can be inserted and withdrawn easily.

I'm adding a photo showing 3 holsters completed last week. The upper two are for a customer wanting holsters for his S&W J-frame and K-frame revolvers in a darker tan color. The bottom is a IWB holster in my usual oiled tan. The top two holster were treated with a diluted tan dye which, when applied, was somewhat lighter than the finished plain oiled tan holster shown. After oiling, the dyed holsters came out as shown. Final finish on all 3 is Bag Kote.

As you can see the dye and oiling really does result in a much darker finish. Some experimentation is necessary to get the desired result. Also, when making sets (holster, belt, pouch) we are almost always using leather of different weights cut from different hides, and I've found that diluted dye applied very lightly in multiple applications and allowed to dry in between applications is necessary to obtain a color/shading match. It can be a challenge.

[carljc72]

Thank you Lobo. I am going to try this metod on my next holster. By the way...I made a holster for myself for IWB to use at IDPA and I get tons of compliments. It was inspired by the one you have shown in this post.

[Lobo]

Thank you Lobo. I am going to try this metod on my next holster. By the way...I made a holster for myself for IWB to use at IDPA and I get tons of compliments. It was inspired by the one you have shown in this post.

Thank you, sir. Most of my holsters are based on designs in common use for many years, so I can't claim bragging rights on the designs. Occasionally an idea comes along for a little different application of the basics but, even then, I usually find that it's been done before by someone else.

Having carried a handgun just about every day for over 40 years, and having been a cop for 24 years, I learned a little bit about what works and what doesn't. Most of my holsters are work horses, not show horses, meant to get the job done.

A couple of weeks ago I produced an old favorite design, the Tom Threepersons belt holster, one that has been around for about 90 years or so. That was fun, as I hadn't made one for years.

[zaptoid]

Just a note for the folks finding their way around this craft like myself. I have found that the neatsfoot oil in pure form is the way to go. I just tried the neatsfoot oil in compound form and I cant even tell its been applied.

[Tayylor]

sure is. Bick's #4 won't darken the leather, will protect it, and mixes with dye wonderfully. Almost everything that I make is Bick's and chocolate or walnut dye.

I have an 8 oz bottle and pour in the Fiebing's directly until I get the color I want. Sponge it on and rub in until it gets smooth. About 20 seconds. It's like putting on a leather balm- soaks in and leaves it smooth and flexible.

I don't even use neats anymore as the Bick's seems to fully restore the moisture after I tool and dry.

pete

Hi, I was wondering when you mentioned chocolate; were you referring to it as a dye?

[snubbyfan]

This was dyed with Fiebings saddle tan professional oil dye. Allowed to dry a coupla days. I applied a thing coat of Neatsfoot. Let that sit for another coupla days. Then it was buffed, given a thin coat of Tan Kote, then the final finish was buffed out.

Edited October 5, 2015 by snubbyfan

[snubbyfan]

[Tayylor]

Thank you!

[Bruno Rock]

I would like to ask another thing about neatsfoot oil and oil finishises, how to let dry it properly in autumn/winter? now it's not very sunny and hot where I live in Italy...