Would you return these goods?

[ruthless]

I bought some collars and leads from the US for research purposes. I did it when the exchange rate was at it's worst, so two collars and three leads cost me AUD$540 [uS$346]. My intention was never to use them, just to check out the quality and the hardware and then sell them on. It took 6-8 weeks for the order to be dispatched. I put my plans on hold until I saw them, but when they arrived last week I was utterly disappointed. I think the quality and finish is really poor and I wonder am I being a bit picky because I'm a perfectionist. I wouldn't dream of sending anything out like this. Let me know what you think and if you notice any other defects that I haven't addressed?

[i've blurred out the company's stamp as I don't want to name names.]

The leather around nearly every rivet has been marked by the setter

The rivets aren't properly centred and neither are the top panels

The corners aren't cut evenly

The leather is shit quality

They didn't even put their own stamp on squarely

[Suze]

You guys know I am not a leatherworker (yet) but those would so be going back....

they are poor quality that even I can see. (Well - I am a crafter)

[rdb]

Cheap hand made is better than cheap machine made, but it comes down to value. I would suggest $20-$25 per piece with $5 extra per concho. That is still far less than you paid.

You did buy to check out the competition, and online to boot. You obviously believed there was value in learning. Lesson learned. Now go out and make better.

[sodapop]

they'd already be in the mail making thier return trip...

darryl

[TwinOaks]

I'd return them in a heartbeat. I hope you paid by credit card, because you can contact the card company and let them know that you're returning the product and you want your money back.

I'm not the best leathercrafter in the world, and I know it. Occasionally, I'll make silly mistakes....but I catch them. I also try to keep my kids (7 & 8 years old) interested in the craft. I can honestly say that my kids can turn out better work than some of what you posted.....well, one of them can. My son (youngest) doesn't really care to much for anything that isn't dangerous to himself or others, but my daughter is making my proud by mimicing my OCD.

Back to the leather: Yep, crap. Send it back in a box, addressed to the CEO of the company, with a polite letter of complaint.

The nice thing about folks that try and turn a quick buck by turning out crap work....well, they aren't around long.

[ryano]

Hello, I would return them. There is no sense in charging that much for that kind of workmanship.

[cem]

I'd send them back as well for that price even now with our now higher Australian dollar I'd expect them to be alot better than that. I'd be interested to know why they took 6-8 weeks to arrive as well were they custom made or normal stock. The only time I've had to wait that long for products from America was before the internet was commonplace in Oz which was about 15 years ago.

[Luke Hatley]

you actually payed that much..........".i have a bridge to sell"....My o My

[tonyc1]

you actually payed that much..........".i have a bridge to sell"....My o My

Is that the Brooklyn Bridge, Luke ???

[badger]

I would expect there to be more care and attention paid at that price.

Personally, I would return them for a refund.

Cheers,

Badger

[sheathmaker]

I would expect there to be more care and attention paid at that price.

Personally, I would return them for a refund.

Cheers,

Badger

I would absolutely return them. End of story!

Paul

[Crystal]

My first gut respnse was the same as everyone else, Send that stuff back!

Second thought was more along the line of keeping them for a good show and tell after you get your products made. Leave the tags on them and you can show off the quality of your work compared to theirs.

For that kind of money, though - I'd have to send them back.

Crystal

[ArtS]

For that price I'd return it if I could. The edges are terrible and the leather looks cheap.

Art

[ruthless]

I've made a complaint and they told me to keep this lot and they'll send me a new batch for free. They actually tried to justify a lot of the issues as being the nature of handmade goods. They didn't dispute that the leather was bad quality though, so hopefully the new stuff will be significantly better.

[sheathmaker]

I've made a complaint and they told me to keep this lot and they'll send me a new batch for free. They actually tried to justify a lot of the issues as being the nature of handmade goods. They didn't dispute that the leather was bad quality though, so hopefully the new stuff will be significantly better.

Based on the information and photos you supplied, you have been grossly overcharged for that quantity of goods even if they were made of the very best materials in the world!.........................and finished to perfection.

It sounds to me like (" well you've stepped in our poo and you don't like it, so we'll keep your money and show you this other pile of poo to step in free of charge")

It's up to you, but I'd sure write them off for good if it was me.

Paul

[ruthless]

So, even if the quality was better, do you think these prices are too high?

2 x collars @ US$100 each

2 x leashes @ US$40 each

1 x leash @ US$30

I don't

[TwinOaks]

I agree with Sheathmaker.

The cost of materials + the cost of labor to make what you got is probably a few bucks per item. It's incredibly profitable for them to say oops, our bad, we sent you the cheap stuff by mistake, here's some more cheap stuff. Even doubling their order, they've made money. If you're okay with paying $50/collar, $20/leash, and $15/leash.....well, okay. I think that's a better price than the original invoice.

It sounds like you accept their refusal to refund your money. That's your business, but in answering your posted question, pretty much every leatherworker here has told you they'd return the merchandise, and why.

If you're really okay with those prices for that quality, please visit my website and place some orders. I'd love to completely fleece work with some customers with more money than standards.

Naw, nevermind. I won't send things like that out the door.

Edited May 25, 2009 by TwinOaks

[rdb]

Since I'm the only contrarian in the bunch, I'ld like to understand a bit better.

1. Someone offers to sell leathergoods at "x" amount.

2. Leather worker buys those goods "for research purposes"

3. Leatherworker, and others are not impressed with the quality, or price, of the work.

4. Everyone wants to return goods.

My impression is that this is a case of one of the following: industrial spying, reverse engineering, checking out the competition. This is not a case of buying something for personal use. Based on the brief description of the exchange, good things about this work would have been incorporated into the leatherworkers own products, but since the stuff was horribly uncraftsman like, and expensive, the leatherworker is returning the goods.

Most who bought this stuff for their own use, would probably return it for money, not swap. The fact that monies were not offered in return says a lot about the manufacturer. However, this is not a personal use issue. This is an admitted "check out the competition". Would any of you like someone to buy your product to check out, copy, incorporate it into their own, then return it, whether or not the quality was good. That was the whole purpose of the purchase. I say the buyer should "man up". The purchase was made. The information was learned. Mission accomplished.

All this kind of stuff does, is to increase the costs of producers in order to make up for lost packaging, sales, etc. Nevermind that this particular manufacture isn't up to snuff. It could happen to any of us. One person buys, just to "sample" the wares, and return it. It just so happens that in this particular case, a return may be warranted, but it still is a case of would you want someone doing it to you?

- end of moral rant

[UKRay]

Most who bought this stuff for their own use, would probably return it for money, not swap. The fact that monies were not offered in return says a lot about the manufacturer. However, this is not a personal use issue. This is an admitted "check out the competition". Would any of you like someone to buy your product to check out, copy, incorporate it into their own, then return it, whether or not the quality was good. That was the whole purpose of the purchase. I say the buyer should "man up". The purchase was made. The information was learned. Mission accomplished.

All this kind of stuff does, is to increase the costs of producers in order to make up for lost packaging, sales, etc. Nevermind that this particular manufacture isn't up to snuff. It could happen to any of us. One person buys, just to "sample" the wares, and return it. It just so happens that in this particular case, a return may be warranted, but it still is a case of would you want someone doing it to you?

Yup - I have to agree with you, Dave. There is always a price to pay for any research. I suspect you just found out what it is...

[Suze]

This also happens in the "big leages" too

I build lift trucks (well the electronics for them anyway) Our bigest competetor "R" builds trucks for slightly different warehouse designs than us.

We (my Company Crown) bought several of them to pull apart and "copy and upgrade" and we now sell a truck that also fits where theirs does. With a lot better build and manufactur process.

A Crown truck is about 90% built on site here in my town.

An R truck is about 20% built in their factory - the rest of it comes from all over the world (cheapest parts)

We hold about 50% of the WORLD market share for trucks right now. And even with the economy here in the toilet I think that is doing pretty good.

You have to expect people to buy your product and rip it apart and copy - that just means that you have to keep making YOUR stuff better than the last thing you sold.

People bought my things at dollhouse shows and I saw something "similar" on their tables later. But there were little tricks that I never shared on some of my products, and theirs just never quite caught up.

[ruthless]

Would any of you like someone to buy your product to check out, copy, incorporate it into their own, then return it, whether or not the quality was good. That was the whole purpose of the purchase. I say the buyer should "man up". The purchase was made. The information was learned. Mission accomplished.

Where exactly did I say I was going to copy the design and incorporate it into my own?? Checking out the quality and finish is very different to copying. Do you think there's something sneaky and underhand about checking out the competition?

Shorty after I placed the order with this company I contacted them and asked could I come to the US and learn from them and then return to Oz and open a franchise of their business. When the owner said they were interested I told them about the order I'd placed and how it was to see the quality and finish and hardware used. I was completely upfront with them.

Yes, I agree that my mission was accomplished, but does that make it ok to send out crappy goods? Just because I bought them for research purposes, does that mean I'm not entitled to a quality product? I asked should I return them, not should I demand a refund. It was all the other posters that said to get my money back. Sure, getting a refund would've been nice, but I never really expected it to happen, so having another batch sent to me is a satisfactory outcome.

[UKRay]

Checking out the competition is an essential part of any marketing exercise. How people choose to do that is entirely up to the individual. IMHO it is underhand to pretend to buy goods to use and then, having stolen the intellectual property, return them for refund. You say this was not your intention - then so be it. I don't know you or your intentions so have no reason either to disbelieve or believe you.

The way I read RDB's post was that he felt much the same. It wasn't a personal attack on anyone, just a simple stating of the facts and asking some extremely pertinent, if rhetorical, questions.

Getting a good replacement for shoddy goods is always acceptable, but, IMHO a cash refund is better!

Ray

[china]

I f you bought them for reaserch then chalk them up to reaserch and produce a better product that is what reaserch is all about

[HarryB]

This time I agree with the "ranters". The price you paid was for research; not for use. I also agree with you: the price is way too high and the quality looks like it really sucks. For that kind of money, all the edges should have been slick and a lot more attention to detail. Just my picky 2 cents worth.

[tonyc1]

At least you now know what quality not to make, so your research has paid off!

Tony.