just cant make them happy

[cjf]

Hello all I am new here and need help . I have done saddle and tack for 10 years most of that was repair work but have 50 + saddles completed the last one was not good . The customer made several changes over the phone and sent e mail pics. the one that made it bad was tooling on the fender she stated fender , sent the design (close up) and when she came to get the saddle said she wanted it on the fender not the stirrup. I stated the fender is not the stirrup she said the top fender (what she meant was the rear jockey / housing. and said she didnt want stitching in the skirts . I told her it was needed to hold the sheepskin on. I can go on but need some verbal coaching. I will send a few pics thanks all.

[Luke Hatley]

DONT BELEIVE NOTHING YOU HEAR AND ONLY 1/2 OF WHAT YOU SEE.......

GIVE HER THE MONEY BACK AND TELL HER THANKS..........AND REMEMBER WHO SHE IS..

[rustyriggin]

I think she just wants her money back, and no matter what she will find something to pick apart, also anyone that is smart enough to buy a custom, handmade saddle, knows the difference between a jocky and a fender. I've never seen a saddle without the skirts stitched. You will never make her happy!!!

[tonyc1]

It could be worse! Some poor sucker is married to her!

Tony.

[CitizenKate]

For any custom work, I require a 50% non-refundable deposit to cover materials and protect me from flight cases like this. If you collected said deposit, you do not owe it back to her. If she wants out of the deal, then she can walk away from the deposit without owing another cent, but she should not get that deposit back. If she doesn't want to walk away from the deposit, then she needs to negotiate a resolution on the deal that will work for both of you.

Kate

[analogphotographer]

I am new to leather but i have seen people in my business(automotive) approve work for a certain amount then say they did not just to get it for free or a discount.I know nothing about saddles so i can only give an opinion.If you think the saddle is worth what you were charging then do not give it to her cheaper,she is playing you.If you think it is not up to par with your normal work then let it go for a little less but not much.Some people really truly do not care about you and what service you have provided and only want a deal.

[TwinOaks]

Ask her who recommended you to her for the work.

That person owes you a beer.

This is another excellent example of why we need contracts and non-refundable deposits.

If she's truly unhappy with the saddle, and has paid a deposit, then offer to remake the saddle for her. Set all design specs at the beginning of the job, and have her sign a "no change" contract. Explain everything about the saddle- stitching, what parts are what, etc. If she wants a saddle with no stitching in the skirts....well, give her one. Minus the sheepskin.

If nothing else, sell the original saddle, or rebuild it as you see fit.

[Denise]

I've just spent a while searching for a previous post and can't find it. Maybe someone else will be able to. It made a lot of sense to me. The poster said that you will satisfy 90 percent of your customers just doing your normal work. Another 9 percent are more difficult to satisfy, but if you make the extra effort, they can be satisfied. And they often turn out to be your biggest supporters and promoters, so it is worth the time and energy. But one percent you cannot and will not ever satisfy, no matter what you do. Those you turn down/cut your losses/learn to spot early. In other words, don't waste your time on them as all your efforts won't work anyway. (The original poster of this idea said it much better.) That has helped me a lot as I would prefer to make everyone happy. Recognizing there is the very rare person that you can't make happy no matter what makes it easier to let them go. So the question for you now is "Is this a nine percenter you will satisfy with a bit more work, or a one percenter you'll never satisfy?"

[Hidemechanic]

I think I remember that post about the 90-9-1 %. One of those topics I added that you can and need to know how to fire a customer.

We all have seen them, the person who walks in your door all self important and micro-managing everything you do, if they know so much why aren't they in the business types.

I know it's easy for us to sit back and say do this or do that, there are other factors we can't deal with in person for you, we can only suggest and hope something makes sense for you CJF.

If you didn't carve initials or any other personal items on this saddle you have the option of letting the customer walk away and you can at some point sell the saddle and recoup something.

Or you can explain to her, with authorety, that you did what she told you to do and it's not your fault that she didn't know her saddle parts. (that's a lesson she has to learn)

Also, though it didn't tern out as she expected, it is still a vary nice saddle. [As far as I can see what you did made the design work look ballenced, I think what she intended would not have] And all saddles have stitching on the skirts, that's what holds things together. She may have been thinking about stiching in fenders or seat jockys which is optional, but not skirts.

I think if you were to explain this to her that, she would see the error of her ways and come around, that is if she has any sense of reason.

It's hard to do custom work long distance, and it's worse when you are dealing with someone who gives the impression they know what they are talking about.

I sympathize with your situation. Let us know how it terns out. Best wishes GH

[Rayban]

That looks like a very nice saddle, you shouldn't have trouble selling it to someone else?

Then now that you know what she wants, make it for her....but whatever you do, DON"T sell it to her for less than you originally agreed to.....that's what she really wants.

[rcsaddles]

I have often thought of this situation but have never faced it. If she wants the money back, tell her she can sell the saddle or leave it for you to sell. Under no circumstances does the saddle leave your possession until paid in full. If you sell the saddle, there is a commission for that service.

We have to do things like this to protect ourselves from people like her. I have had people complain about prices but when I explain the process, they seem to be ok with the price. I have a whip to deliver today that I replaced the handle in. I told the guy on the phone what it was going to cost him. He seemed to have a little "sticker shock" but after telling him what I did seemed to make it better. We will see.

Just my opinion like everyone else here. One day, by combining all answers to this problem we will all have the perfect way to deal with difficult customers

Make sure to let us know how this turns out.

Joe

[HARVEY]

I have often thought of this situation but have never faced it. If she wants the money back, tell her she can sell the saddle or leave it for you to sell. Under no circumstances does the saddle leave your possession until paid in full. If you sell the saddle, there is a commission for that service.

We have to do things like this to protect ourselves from people like her. I have had people complain about prices but when I explain the process, they seem to be ok with the price. I have a whip to deliver today that I replaced the handle in. I told the guy on the phone what it was going to cost him. He seemed to have a little "sticker shock" but after telling him what I did seemed to make it better. We will see.

Just my opinion like everyone else here. One day, by combining all answers to this problem we will all have the perfect way to deal with difficult customers

Make sure to let us know how this turns out.

Joe

I don't suppose, if the whip orderer doesn't like things, it would be gentlemanly to use the whip on him. For testing purposes only.

[mulefool]

It's a tough one. Luckily it's a nice enough saddle you could sell it to someone else. I had to fire a customer once. It was kind of similar, I can't remember all the details but she was unhappy about things that on a saddle just go without saying, similar to your customers complaint about the skirts. I worked with her for awhile til I realized I couldn't please. I finally said in the nicest way possible that I was sorry I couldn't please her but that apparently we had a communication problem and I felt she would be happier finding someone who could understand what she wanted. Didn't make me too sad since there wasn't anyone else around to do the work for her. (heh, heh).

I also bought back a saddle I'd built once because the owner didn't think it fit her horse. I did all sorts of checking etc, and didn't agree with her. There were some other things going on with the horse that I felt were the problem, and she went through a bunch of other saddles after that without luck. However she was really convinced and I really didn't like the idea of a customer out there fuming over something like that. I told her I didn't agree with her but that I knew she felt strongly about her view and I would buy the saddle back. That was actually a good move in the long run, because she told every one she knew (and she knew a lot) that I stood behind my work.

In regards to the deposit. I think when someone orders it needs to be in writing and signed agreeing that the deposit is non-refundable. Good luck I hope whatever you decide is relatively painless. Chris

[rcsaddles]

The man looked at it, said, "That looks like a great job." handed me a check and said thank you. Sometimes people surprise me. Not good of me to expect something bad.

Joe

I don't suppose, if the whip orderer doesn't like things, it would be gentlemanly to use the whip on him. For testing purposes only.

[cjf]

WOW,,, Thanks to all of you .I can't believe all of the support and great advice.I used a little bit of from everyone and the verdict is . she loves it and on top of the additional charges she gave me a tip (20.00 that I feel I need to split with all of you ) I also learned several business tips and earned a whole new outlook . Thank you all again Joel at circle-jf-saddlery.

[HallisChalmers]

I work in a totally unrelated field (telecom), but jerks seem to grow like weeds - no matter the industry. I thought it might be intersting to try this: Next time you have a prospect that wants some particular type of work done on their custom order - get out the video camera.

Tell them that you want to be sure that your work matches their exact requirements and specifications, because you truly value them as a customer and want to make sure they are 100% satisfied.

Do it in a friendly matter-of-fact way with the camera in a corner and start recording. Get them engaged in the specs and details - act professional (not adversarial) and they'll forget about the camera (hopefully).

I know this sounds Big Brother 1984-ish, but nowdays there are a lot of scammers and double-talkers that are really in it for the $$$$ and want to screw you out of your hard work.

The unblinking eye keeps most people honest.

Anyway, just a thought - I may be totally off base.

[Tina]

WOW,,, Thanks to all of you .I can't believe all of the support and great advice.I used a little bit of from everyone and the verdict is . she loves it and on top of the additional charges she gave me a tip (20.00 that I feel I need to split with all of you ) I also learned several business tips and earned a whole new outlook . Thank you all again Joel at circle-jf-saddlery.

I've been following this thread with interest...I'm so happy everything whent well and that everyone is happy at the end:-)

[TexasJack]

I used to work for a company owned by two brothers. They used to say, "This would be a great business if it wasn't for those damn customers!"

It helped us get through those days when nothing you do makes the customer happy.

Since you say you've learned a lot from these responses, let me add another: The closer the customer is to you (like a friend or relative) the MORE you need to protect yourself with a good, tight contract. That keeps it 'all business'. Otherwise, chances are pretty good you'll wind up hating each other.

[cjf]

I used to work for a company owned by two brothers. They used to say, "This would be a great business if it wasn't for those damn customers!"

It helped us get through those days when nothing you do makes the customer happy.

Since you say you've learned a lot from these responses, let me add another: The closer the customer is to you (like a friend or relative) the MORE you need to protect yourself with a good, tight contract. That keeps it 'all business'. Otherwise, chances are pretty good you'll wind up hating each other.

When I first started with repair work friends would stop in for a repair and act surprised when I gave them a price quote. I now have a little sign that reads "I started this business to make a living and fill a need not give friends and family a deal" It is for comedy but I found out when you have the right tools and a lot on neat things you sure make a lot of friends.lol ,best wishes Joel.

[Billy P]

Hello everyone, while following this thread, it made me remember something. About 3 to 3 1/2 years ago I made my uncle a belt. Well he loves it and wears it allot. My little town only has 1 store that is of any size, and it's really small at that. Just about every morning I meet my uncle and several more of the older fellows and drink coffee and shoot the breeze. I've known all of these guys all my life, and they are all in their 70's. Anyway to the point, another guy, just a little older than I am, has been looking at my uncle's belt, and a few weeks ago he asked me about making him one too. He asked me how much I would charge him for the belt, so I says to him, well Junebug, I won't charge you hardly for the work, just a little over the cost of the material so about $20 or $25 is all that it will cost you. He gets red in the face, and tells me I can't believe that you want to charge 20 or 25 dollars for just a belt. I told him if I order a belt strip and buckle and then use chicago screws to hold it on and pay shipping on it all, I'll have more than $25 in it myself. The only reason I could make it that cheap is I cut my on strap and already had the other stuff on hand. He looked like he wanted to change his mind about me overcharging him, but before he could open his mouth, I told him to go to Wal-Mart, Target, or to the flea-market and get him a cheap belt, that I didn't think that I would have time to make him one in the next few years. Sure the belt bend I'm using I bought a long time back, but I am gonna have to replace it with leather that probably won't be as good and will most likely cost me 3 times as much. The price of just about everything related to leatheworking, whether it's for a little paying hobby like me or it's someone that is doing it as a business, to make their living and support their family has gone up a pretty good bit in the last couple of years or so. Even me, with hardly any overhead, can't do cheap much anymore. It must be really tough on people who rent a building or who has a separate shop outside the house. I have a small shop outback of my house. I wired it up, put in good lights, and air-conditioner, a little electric heater, just right for me and I could play my music as loud as I wanted, buddy comes over and mix up a drink, good time all the way around. Then the figureing up started. There is not much business in my area, so I really don't sell much plus with me drawing SS disability, I'm kind of wary about doing much, but the shop with as few hours that I put in out there was costing me about $75.00 to $100.00 a month extra on my power bill, so I moved back into my spare room in the house. I've rambled enough now, but my point is everything we do has some sort of cost to it. With no more than I sell, I charge a firm deposit on any custom item. I don't care if it's uncle, cousin, family or friend or stranger, before I pull out and cut leather they are gonna come of some $$$$$ or go somewhere else. I keep some belts that I made in the early 80's. I made them for some guys on a construction job that weekend, take them to work on Monday and they had gotten laid off the weekend and I'm out my time and money. Where am I gonna sell a size 46 buckstitched belt, with "MONTE" on it? When someone wants to try and slide by on the deposit I show them these belts, usually enough said. Wishing everyone a good day A HAPPY AND SAFE JULY 4th Billy P