BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 21, 2009 I was checking out the dummy gun rental thread and it made me ponder an idea. I have a hard getting the dummy guns I want. I'm sure several of you guys do as well. Duncan's Customs requires a minimum of four orders before they will cast a dummy gun. How many of you are interested in using a forum thread to guage shared interest in having specific models cast? If you need a specific gun cast, you make a post to let everyone know you want that model (a post declairing your interest in a dummy gun would be treated as a commitment to buy). Anyone else who also wants that model would add a +1. Once we hit four requests, all interested parties would place a call to Duncan's. One of the issues with trying to get a dummy gun cast is comming up with a gun to send in in the first place, and covering the costs. I would be interested in floating some extra money towards anyone who is willing to send their pistol in if that was an option, and I'm sure some of you guys would do the same. So what do you think? Description Legend: C&L: this means the pistol is to be cast with hammer back, and the safety on. D-C: this means the pistol is to be cast de-cocked with the hammer down, but with the safety off (ready to fire). D-C/S: this means the pistol is to be cast de-cocked with the hammer down, but with the safety on. Here's my interest list: 1. 4" bbl 1911 C&L. Either a Kimber Pro Carry II, or a Springfield Champion. Preferably, the pistol to be cast would have an ambidextrous safety. 2. H&K USP series; USP45 C&L, USP45C C&L, USP9 C&L, USP9C C&L, USP45 Expert C&L and D-C, USP9 Expert C&L and D-C. 3. H&K VP70z. 4. H&K P7M10. 5. H&K P30L 6. Browning Hi-Power MKIII C&L 7. Kahr K9 8. Kahr T9 9. Kahr TP9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tac Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Jeff, I have no experience with the Duncan cast aluminum dummy guns. Can you advise what the average cost would be for a model that they already produce? Is there a price difference if you are ordering one of the first four guns? (Reduced cost with volume purchases ?) I am curious and interested in this concept. I am not sure that I have as large of a need as others, but I am still interested. -Tac Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 21, 2009 Right now Duncan's charges $45 per gun and $12 dollars per magazine. They usually need a little clean up with a dremel before they are ready to use, but it is worth it when you end up with a mold that won't wear out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jared Report post Posted July 22, 2009 I'm honestly surprised at the lack of interest. I figured everyone had at least one gun they couldn't find or get ahold of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shorts Report post Posted July 22, 2009 I'm honestly surprised at the lack of interest. I figured everyone had at least one gun they couldn't find or get ahold of. I have a few on my list that I need. My concern is the up front cost lump sum and Duncan's guns in general. I've been looking into dummy guns myself. There is interest for sure. I'm hoping to find a solution that includes reproduction capability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 22, 2009 I know of a few people that have looked into it, some quite extensively. I already tracked down a material to make my own molds and cast dummies from a very strong polymer. I was planning to sell extras to recoup costs, but that is where you run into problems. Any dummy gun made from non-metallic materials is an infringement on the patent ASP holds (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice). I know that John Rings pays a royalty to asp to build blue guns. A little operation like mine just isn't able to do that. Thus, I am dealing with the dummy gun companies that are available, or perhaps casting my own at a higher expense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickf Report post Posted July 22, 2009 So throw some old shred of aluminum cans in your polymer and now it's metallic. Seriously, what a joke. I am interested to see what you guys come up with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windom Leather Report post Posted July 28, 2009 Forgive me I am still fairly new to this. Can you get these dummy guns as revolvers like an old colt and clones of such? I'm into cowboy action shooting and have been thinking of expanding into the old west cowboy gun leather. My next question is, are they exact duplicates or do they make them so say the front sight extends all the way back to the rear of the gun so when you block the leather it doesn't trap any protrusions? I agree with dickf, what a bunch of crap about an infringment! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan Report post Posted July 28, 2009 Don't know about the revolver question but the addition of a wooden dowel between the sights usually takes care of the catching problem. I think with a western style holster it would not present that much of a problem, as the holsters are not molded in the barrel area as close as the autos are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 28, 2009 kwranch, you can get dummy guns for older revolvers if you are into CAS. That isn't what I deal with, but I certainly don't mind you leaving a list of what you are looking for in this thread. That having been said, it isn't horribly difficult to get your hands on several cowboy action revolvers. Duncan's Currently has the following in stock as of the 24th: Colt 1903 1847 Walker Dragoon Colt Single Action Army Ruger New Model Vaquero 5.5" Ruger New Model Vaquero 7.5" Ruger Old Model Vaquero 5.5" Ruger Vaquero Montado 3 5/8" They add more from time to time, but this is what they have available right now. A couple of things to consider - You can use a mallet head and hammer handle to form most CAS holsters. John Bianchi does this in his video. You can also get non firing prop guns for most of the cowboy revolvers with ease. As mentioned you can also use a dowel rod as a front sight clearance rail, although I didn't find that necessary on the cowboy rig that I built (only one I ever made, so my experience here is extremely limited). On my modern dummies I install an aluminum rail, but the holsters are all tightly pressed and bones so it is necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickybobby Report post Posted July 28, 2009 kwranch, On my modern dummies I install an aluminum rail, but the holsters are all tightly pressed and bones so it is necessary. Jeff, I noticed the alum. rails in a photo of some you had for sale. Do you make and install the rails? If so, How? They look a lot more durable and permanent then the wood dowel. Rick J. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 28, 2009 rickybobby, I have a buddy with a machine shop. I trade shop time for holsters and use his help and equipment to clean up the molds. To put the sight rail in I use a 1/4" mill and cut a slot in the dummy gun. The rail is made from 1/4" bar stock of 6061 aluminum. I use Gorilla glue to install the rail on the blue guns, and the aluminum dummy guns have the rail welded in place with a TIG welder (compliments of my buddy). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobo Report post Posted July 30, 2009 Forgive me I am still fairly new to this. Can you get these dummy guns as revolvers like an old colt and clones of such? I'm into cowboy action shooting and have been thinking of expanding into the old west cowboy gun leather. My next question is, are they exact duplicates or do they make them so say the front sight extends all the way back to the rear of the gun so when you block the leather it doesn't trap any protrusions? I agree with dickf, what a bunch of crap about an infringment! When I recently started making the Threepersons-style holsters in the original style, and offering the original style of carving, I very quickly started receiving requests for these to fit the Colt SAA (Threepersons' sidearm of choice, back in the day). I ordered an aluminum dummy from Duncan's (www.duncansoutdoor.com, 989-894-6691), Colt SAA with 4.75" barrel, and I have added plug-in barrel extensions for the 5.5" and 7.5" models. This has worked just fine. RE: cost; while $45 plus shipping (about $53 delivered) may seem like a considerable expense for a single project, the way that I look at it is that the first job pays for the dummy gun, then I have it on hand for future orders. For some obsolete and out-of-production handguns I have been known to purchase an actual handgun for holster forming, when the demand warrants it and dummy guns aren't readily available (after all, the cost is deductible as a business expense for tax purposes, and the value of quality handguns has been increasing at much higher rates than inflation for years). "what a bunch of crap about an infringement!", sounds like the words of a man who will be paying a lawyer lots of money sometime in the future! Be very careful about copying others products or methods for any business use for profit. Best regards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jared Report post Posted July 30, 2009 Did I miss something? I thought this was a thread looking to find people wanting the same guns so that we could go through someone like duncan's to get what we want? Who said anything about copying or trying to make money? I just knew there were a few guns that were nigh impossible to get molds for.. Maybe I missed something Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 30, 2009 Hey Jared. I'm kind of surprised that nobody left a list. I guess we'll be on our own getting dummy guns made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lobo Report post Posted July 30, 2009 Did I miss something? I thought this was a thread looking to find people wanting the same guns so that we could go through someone like duncan's to get what we want? Who said anything about copying or trying to make money? I just knew there were a few guns that were nigh impossible to get molds for.. Maybe I missed something Jared: Boomstick commented about making his dummy guns (for sale) using molds and polymers, adding that it appears to be a proprietary process (Ring's paying royalties to ASP, etc). Then a couple of others commented that worrying about an infringement was a joke. My comment was cautionary; if the process is proprietary and someone uses it for profit, there could be rather serious legal consequences. If you wish to make your own dummy guns for your own use, I can't see any problems. This would require having the gun to cast a mold from, then casting the dummy from that mold; all well and good. Then you make a second casting and sell that to someone, you might just run into legal problems. I apologize for any confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jared Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Now it makes sense.. however, the intention of Boomstick and myself was that we could all go in on duncan's. The downside to getting the aluminum guns are the startup and the having to get 4 molds. So the startup for it for one person is horrible.. but if you get a group to split it.. the help is tremendous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Normally I would have been interested in at least two of the guns on Jeff's list but finances being what they are I have to bow out. Good idea though. Bronson Edited July 31, 2009 by Bronson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobearsyet Report post Posted August 6, 2009 My list is short, sweet and to the point Commander 1911 Ultra Compact 1911 Taurus Judge 3" chamber version Colt Bisley, hammer down Mare's leg (prefferably the new Puma version Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigRiverLeather Report post Posted September 22, 2009 Is there any life left in this? If so, I have a list as well Commander 1911 3" 1911 XD9 G36 P250 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kissholsters Report post Posted September 22, 2009 this is my list. keltec pf9 p3at p32 p11 lcp s&w m&p xd sub com m9,92fs khar sig p250 glock 17,19,26,30,36,21 fullsize 1911 1911 with rail 1911 3" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kissholsters Report post Posted September 23, 2009 that is a list of what i have.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
