My project highjacked by Eco-flo

[lael]

Hello All,

While Im not a newby to leathercraft I am a newby to using dyes.

In addition, I have poured through this forum looking for answers to my soon to be presented problem. While I have discovered much info concerning what I SHOULD have done or SHOULD have used... Ive not found an answer to my problem.

By recommendation of the folks at Tandy I purchased the Eco-flo dye/sealer and Satin Sheen. I informed them that this knife sheath would see a great deal of weather and I didnt want the dye to bleed when Im in the field durring rain. They assured me that these were the products I wanted.

I did 2 applications of the dye with 1 day dry time and buffing between coats. I then let it dry for a good 24 hours. Im in New Mexico and things dry very fast here but I let it go longer than what was even recomended to me. I applied the Satin Sheen this morning. After about 3 hours (told that 2 would be fine) I checked it and felt and by all means felt dry. I began to lightly buff with a Tshirt. I soon found that the dye was coming off slightly and that the dye was also coming off on my sweaty fingers.

So the million dollor question is where do I go from here. I dont need to know what I should have done...I got that. But what can I do now that the piece is presentable but not yet functional? Do I need to wash it until it washes free of dye and start over with alternative dye, sealer and finish? Can I do somthing to this that will truley "seal" it from bleeding (such as snow seal or Bee natural wax etc...)?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully offer a solution.

[CitizenKate]

So the million dollor question is where do I go from here. I dont need to know what I should have done...I got that. But what can I do now that the piece is presentable but not yet functional? Do I need to wash it until it washes free of dye and start over with alternative dye, sealer and finish? Can I do somthing to this that will truley "seal" it from bleeding (such as snow seal or Bee natural wax etc...)?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully offer a solution.

Lael, welcome to Leatherworker!

The sheen will come off easily with water, along with a fair amount of the dye. Not all the dye will come off, but the main thing is to get the finish cleaned off. Maybe follow that with deglazer or acetone to get the finish thoroughly cleaned off.

You can add more of the same dye you used, or switch to a spirit dye if you wish. If you change colors, the new color will blend with whatever is left of the old (regardless of whether it's spirit dye or water-based, assuming the first dye is dry when you apply the second dye).

The finishes that do the best job of sealing water-based dyes is either wax or lacquer. I've been using Bee-Natural for years now. I get a small amount of dye rub-off when I'm buffing the finish for the first time, but it seems to "cure" and I have not seen any problems after that. Even pouring water on it. There are other treatments you can use that are made for waterproofing boots, that will add more protection to an article that is going to be exposed to a lot of "the elements". Not sure of the exact products for that, but it has been mentioned in other threads.

Hope this helps...

Kate

Kate

[Rayban]

Solution, Fiebings Professional Oil Dye, does the job, smells even better..........screw that eco-friendly tree-hugging quiche eating card carrying still living with Mom movement.

Hope this helps.

[lael]

Thank Thank Thank You both! I will post results and some of my work. Thanks a million for answering my million dollar question!

[TwinOaks]

You might try resolene if you want an acrylic finish. Just out of curiosity, what color are you trying to dye it?

[Russ]

LOL!

Solution, Fiebings Professional Oil Dye, does the job, smells even better..........screw that eco-friendly tree-hugging quiche eating card carrying still living with Mom movement.

Hope this helps.

[David Fields]

Solution, Fiebings Professional Oil Dye, does the job, smells even better..........screw that eco-friendly tree-hugging quiche eating card carrying still living with Mom movement.

Hope this helps.

Hilarious!

[lael]

It is black. It is for a client and they insisted on black. Ive spent far more time on this mess than I spent hand stitching the piece.

Ok so before I wash this and start at square one again...can I put an acrylic finish over the satin sheen or do I need to strip all the ecoflo off first?

Thanks

[lael]

Taking the eco-flo products back to Tandy tomorrow and cursing myself today for having used them. The red flag should have sprung when the salesman said "water based"...I know better than to think a water based product is going to hold up in wet environment.

[Rayban]

I think I would try USMC black over the eco flo, then satin sheen it.

[TimKleffner]

Lael

There are really GOOD water based products out there. Tandy carried Fiebings products for years and stopped carrying them when the found this 'Eco-flo' stuff. I AM a die hard Fiebings products user.

I make black cell phone cases and badge wallets for a bunch of the area law enforcement. It's all black!

I basket each product, oil it, dye it, with Black USMC spirit dye, then buff off all excess. I use FIEBINGS acrylic resolene.

I take a cup of resolene, 1/2 cup water and mix well. I submerse the product, with a dauber, I gently scrub inside and out. I pull it out, wipe it down with a piece of t-shirt, then set it aside to dry. Couple hours later, I gently buff it again, buff out my edges, then set my snaps.

SINCE I have gone to this process, I have NO complaints. I get them back several years later when the officer has a new cell phone, and they appear worn , BUT , NO COMPLAINTS.

This is what I do.

Happy tooling

Tim

[lael]

Rayban,

Are you saying apply USMC black polish or dye over the eco flo dye and satin sheen that are already on the sheath then apply more satin sheen?

[whinewine]

lael:

I think the biggest thing is to seal in the dyes well, whether or not if you've used spirit dyes or ecoflo (or any other waterbased dyes). I have, for instance, made coaster sets using ecoflo dyes (primarily because of the color ranges they come in) & they haven't bled- BUT I seal them with neatlac or saddle lac, including the edges. AND I make several applications, just to be sure. I am NOT a big fan of the super/satin sheen stuff- I just feel you are asking for trouble by using a waterbased finish over a waterbased dye in a water-moist environment...

russ

[lael]

Thanks All,

I should have known better...really. I just finished washing / stripping the sheath. All I can say is wow!!!! Woww!!!! That all came off so easily. Three applications of dye and three applications of satin sheen...washed right off in warm water..very little scrubbing required. All I can say on top of that is that Im very disappointed in the salesmen at Tandy leather and myself for trusting their advice. I have totally lost my profit on this project. Im just glad that it didnt go out and bleed off on my client in the field. I have never dyed any of my leather work...only oiled and never had a problem. This was the first time I had a request for a dyed piece.

This has been a good lesson.

Again, Thank you all for your feedback and advice.

[jrny4wrd]

Solution, Fiebings Professional Oil Dye, does the job, smells even better..........screw that eco-friendly tree-hugging quiche eating card carrying still living with Mom movement.

Hope this helps.

There is character here. There is something special about traditional. It's respect. Respects towards what gives not just what is taken. There is a movement yes but it has been around since b4 feibing was even born. Its called respecting what gives. Maybe the water based hippy shit isn't working as good as some of the others, heck maybe it works like crap, but people are trying and with that can come things not only more safe for your mother, children, and you but also a bit more respects full for the earth and the cattle in which the hyde you have taken. So mock the movement if you want, everyone knows that a man can hunt with a knife and cry over which it killed and be more of a man then a gun that fears his internal self.

[Rayban]

There is character here. There is something special about traditional. It's respect. Respects towards what gives not just what is taken. There is a movement yes but it has been around since b4 feibing was even born. Its called respecting what gives. Maybe the water based hippy shit isn't working as good as some of the others, heck maybe it works like crap, but people are trying and with that can come things not only more safe for your mother, children, and you but also a bit more respects full for the earth and the cattle in which the hyde you have taken. So mock the movement if you want, everyone knows that a man can hunt with a knife and cry over which it killed and be more of a man then a gun that fears his internal self.

Great first post....welcome to the forum.....or not.....

[Gump]

Thanks All,

I should have known better...really. I just finished washing / stripping the sheath. All I can say is wow!!!! Woww!!!! That all came off so easily. Three applications of dye and three applications of satin sheen...washed right off in warm water..very little scrubbing required. All I can say on top of that is that Im very disappointed in the salesmen at Tandy leather and myself for trusting their advice. I have totally lost my profit on this project. Im just glad that it didnt go out and bleed off on my client in the field. I have never dyed any of my leather work...only oiled and never had a problem. This was the first time I had a request for a dyed piece.

This has been a good lesson.

Again, Thank you all for your feedback and advice.

lael; I have been making knife sheaths and holsters for 20 odd years and I find Fiebings pro oil dye very water resistant on it own, however I like to keep outdoor gear coated with neatsfoot oil compound and nothing else. I find beeswax the best for sealing the edges. Apply wax after finishing and rub in well with slicker. Leather will absorb more water through an untreated edge than anywhere else. As for the Eco-flo, two thumbs down. Gump.