Bates Cair panel system question

[Curbstrap2]

I understand from some that this was an idea that just didn't work out in the long run. Can anyone explain the pros/cons of the Cair system? (from a saddler's point of view) Thanks.

[Traveller]

I'm not a saddle maker so can't address the Cair system (Bates' name for the air panels in their Bates and Wintec saddles) from that point of view, but I know they're still using air panels in their saddles, so they must consider it a success. A few other brands have picked up the practice, though not many.

Personally, I don't think it's such a great idea. Yes, air will not press down on a sharp point, so if my horse had a lump on his back that other saddles constantly chaffed, then air panels would be a solution (as would retiring the horse!). But air, while it feels soft when you put your finger in it and displace only a small amount, becomes rock hard when you push down on the entire panel, so I'm not sure it's as forgiving as old fashioned wool, provided the wool is restuffed from time to time.

I don't know whether the air panels in western saddle pads, such as SMX Professionals Choice, are better than the Cair panels. It's possible that they are because they have many very small pockets that get compressed instead of the four rather large compartments of the Cair system, allowing for a variation in the pressure on a horse's back. I know serious riders who swear by them, though I haven't tried them myself.

Like you, curbstrap, I'm very interested to hear what others have to say!

Joanne

[David Genadek]

I understand from some that this was an idea that just didn't work out in the long run. Can anyone explain the pros/cons of the Cair system? (from a saddler's point of view) Thanks.

When you place a saddle on the horses back and then sit in it you're going to have pressure.You want to control where the pressure goes and you would prefer that the pressure stays right under where you are sitting as the math of the anatomy doesn't allow for much more than that area to be bearing weight.

So:

Air or gel move away from pressure, thus becomes impossible for you to put the pressure where you want.

I once had one of the gel pad companies call me to try and get me to endorse their product. So I asked the lady a few questions. I said the gel will move away from pressure right. She replied yes. I then I said If I have a saddle that fits and the pressure is right where I want it and I use your pad it will make it not fit right? After several minutes of dead silence she replied yes.

The market is full of ridiculous gimmicks look at how many flex treed saddles are being sold today and look at how many flexible panel systems have been sold and the systems are absolutely ridiculous with no chance whatsoever of doing what they claim but yet they can make money off of them and they continue to use the horse owners ignorance against them.

David Genadek

Edited October 1, 2009 by David Genadek

[barra]

Just in case people are wondering what is being discussed.

http://www.cairpanelsystem.com/whatIsCAIR/index.htm

Not to change the actual topic but there is also the "flair" system which differs from cair in that it can be adjusted.

Barra

[Curbstrap2]

Thanks all. I hear many different opinions on Cair. I know of one individual that had her Cair panels removed because she couldn't get the saddle to fit anything. She had them replaced with wool flocked panels and she (and her horses) are much happier. I have never heard of the 'Flair' system until now.

[DennisLane]

Hi all.

I agree with David. In my opinion you can’t beat a well fitting tree sitting in the correct position. Well said David, it is about time the public is informed about this sort of BS.

Dennis Lane

[jimsaddler]

Hi all.

I agree with David. In my opinion you can't beat a well fitting tree sitting in the correct position. Well said David, it is about time the public is informed about this sort of BS.

Dennis Lane

Hi all

can I put in two Bobs worth here please.

I've worked on a Saddle or 2 in my time. The biggest problem I have encountered is Heat. If you put any item on a Horses back that doesn't Breathe it overheats, end result lovely White Hairs appear and Horse develops funny little habits when ridden. To Keep Air or Gel in a Panel it must be Airtight so it can't Breathe. Even in extremes of cold a Horse can overheat, let alone in the Heat. Oh well, who's worried about the Horse, the Panels look nice. Lets have a Barbque?

Nothing is better than a good fitting conventional Tree and Natural Stuffing in the Panel. Gimmicks come and go but Good Saddle Standards always outlast them and keep going. You can't better them. Good on you Guys for speaking up.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[Denise]

I have heard that the first air panel was actually patented in the 1800's. The fact that this isn't commonly known tells you a lot about how successful they were and how well they must have worked back then. From what I know, nothing much has changed...

[Blake]

Hi all.

I agree with David. In my opinion you can't beat a well fitting tree sitting in the correct position. Well said David, it is about time the public is informed about this sort of BS.

Dennis Lane

Gee Dennis, You haven't heard any real BS yet.

Blake