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hand sewing and left/right twist

MADMAX22

By MADMAX22
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Les No6 Member

Les No6

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I'm a third generation harness maker in England my granddad dealt wholly with work gear this equipment spends its time either being worked hard on a very large horse or laying on the stable floor (wasn't the beautiful smell of leather you was greeted with when you entered his workshop most of his work being repairs in this type of work) this harness was hand stitched with hand spun linen thread (most called it hemp but its linen and was cheaper than ready spun thread) waxed with black wax and I've seen sets of harness around 100 YEARs old still in use no sign of thread rotting also seen items where the entire top and bottom of the stitches have completely worn away and it's still holding together as far as I'm concerned that's tried and tested so its linen for me but silk was supposed to be best never used silk don't know anyone that has. I do use braided polyester ready waxed on some jobs like sewing box keepers where their isn't enough room to use needles wouldn't use it to sew anything that will be exposed to sun light though I've seen it rot nylon in acouple of years, polyester is probably same, it do's hold up well to hand sewing. As to the subject of twist I asked my dad this many years ago and he said that thread twist only makes a difference to machines, before the advent of machine's twist wasn't an issue have known him to be wrong on occasion though. I'm right handed and use z twist same as I use on the machine a lot of hand stitching I do is continuing on from machine stitching so needs to match, on occasion that I make a thread I don't pay attention to the direction of twist and I've never noticed a problem I don't slant my stitches though that's an American thing we like ours neat and in line and English is regarded as best;), don't lock every stitch by passing the threads over each other I just do this at the ends or maybe it only shows up on long runs, Ill have to hand stitch a pair of traces and see.

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jimsaddler Member

jimsaddler

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Hi Les

I can appreciate what you are saying. Can I please point out a couple of point though. When closing out Machine sewing it is a good idea to sew in the same Reverse twist as the Machines for neatness. I did the same until I came into the age of the 441 with reverse which will sew my ends and reverse lock them. I even have the reverse pricking Irons to mark the reverse stitch rows to match the Machine sewing. Like you I like the way that good waxed end stitching will last for ever even if the back and front wear off. Reason being that the stitch is thrown , thus creating a twist inside the Awl hole like a screw and the Wax / resin / pitch bonds to the Leather like concrete. Yes the old boys did through the back loop back as far as I can trace in England, Scotland and Australia. I used to have Fine Carriage Harness that was made in the very early 1800's in London for a Maharajah. Well worn but holding up exceptionally well for its age. I unpicked a section and low and behold it was the same Twist as I use to-day. The Thread was was White waxed Silk! (not used to-day as the white was achieved by using White Lead in the Wax. A toxic mixture, we now realize why the Pro Stitcher's died young and Bald.

I repaired Sulky Traces that my Great Grandfather made in 1927. To unpick the Linen stitching was was very hard to do as the thread was bonded to the Leather. The set of Harness had been regularly used at least weekly over the years. I still use the same Beeswax / Resin mixture as he did and I have Harness I made near 50 years ago still going strong and winning in the Show ring.

So as far as synthetics go it will take me another 30 or 40 years to make up my mind if they are any good or not.

I have to disagree about the Z & S twist though. only lefties should use Z twist as a right handed sewer will definitely cause unraveling, over a distance it causes the appearance to become straight instead of maintaining the Twisted lay appearance. To the casual observer it is not apparent, but for those who have long experience it is very obvious.

To-day who cares? The standards have dropped. It's a throw away world they say! That is the problem we should all care and restore the Pride of our Forefathers who really cared about what they produced.

Sorry I am not being critical, My thing is History of the Saddle and Harness Trades and I have always admired the beautiful Hand Stitching practiced in the British Isles. The slope is what makes it what it is. I've had visits from some of the Wallsal Hand Sewing Families over the years when I was in Tonga. One Family who spent a week with us. consisted of Granny, Mum and 3 Daughters plus little Brother. Their Family could not remember any ancestors who weren't Contract Hand sewers. All threw the Back stitch. Even when doing single needle. I might add that I have seen one Family Business here in Australia who never threw the Back Stitch. When it came to a National Product Competition, some 20 years ago, my Stitching won me the prize the (British) Judge explained. Yes every Thread was Hand Made on the Thigh.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

From Australia.

I'm a third generation harness maker in England my granddad dealt wholly with work gear this equipment spends its time either being worked hard on a very large horse or laying on the stable floor (wasn't the beautiful smell of leather you was greeted with when you entered his workshop most of his work being repairs in this type of work) this harness was hand stitched with hand spun linen thread (most called it hemp but its linen and was cheaper than ready spun thread) waxed with black wax and I've seen sets of harness around 100 YEARs old still in use no sign of thread rotting also seen items where the entire top and bottom of the stitches have completely worn away and it's still holding together as far as I'm concerned that's tried and tested so its linen for me but silk was supposed to be best never used silk don't know anyone that has. I do use braided polyester ready waxed on some jobs like sewing box keepers where their isn't enough room to use needles wouldn't use it to sew anything that will be exposed to sun light though I've seen it rot nylon in acouple of years, polyester is probably same, it do's hold up well to hand sewing. As to the subject of twist I asked my dad this many years ago and he said that thread twist only makes a difference to machines, before the advent of machine's twist wasn't an issue have known him to be wrong on occasion though. I'm right handed and use z twist same as I use on the machine a lot of hand stitching I do is continuing on from machine stitching so needs to match, on occasion that I make a thread I don't pay attention to the direction of twist and I've never noticed a problem I don't slant my stitches though that's an American thing we like ours neat and in line and English is regarded as best;), don't lock every stitch by passing the threads over each other I just do this at the ends or maybe it only shows up on long runs, Ill have to hand stitch a pair of traces and see.

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ramrod Leatherworker

ramrod

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i'd love to pick it up - i just don't have coin right now. someday, i'll stitch with linen. until then, i have miles and miles of polyester to use up.

  • 2 years later...
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JDM Member

JDM

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I know this is an old thread. I'm getting back into leatherwork, and this mystery of thread twist for hand sewing mattering or not continues to bother me.

So, I paid close attention while sewing without setting the awl down. I mean Stohlman instruction book style, except throwing the left side thread over (clockwise as viewed from the left, off side of the piece) to create an overhand knot, as I do and Jimsaddler and others advocate. I am right handed.

I am unsure whether "throwing the loop" over makes any difference to twist tightening or loosening. I could argue that issue both ways as well as neutral. However, I noticed that juggling the awl and needle back and forth in my right hand, at least the way I do it, which is whatever comes naturally, tends to wind the thread in a clockwise from thread end (right twist) direction. So do minor hand rotations when pulling stitches tight, particularly when deliberately pulling the right hand side slightly downward and the left upward, as you would want when "throwing the loop."

I can see where this could add up over a long thread run. A portion of a rotation or so each stitch could make a difference. Best would be to be tightening the twist, not doing the opposite. Is this effect enough to matter? Maybe or not.

I suspect few still hand sew one awl poke and stitch at a time, and for those who don't, I doubt any of this really makes much difference. It may not either for those who do depending on their particular technique.

Edited by JDM
  • 2 years later...
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gary Member

gary

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http://abbeyengland.com/Store/CategoryID/432/Level/a

http://www.leprevo.co.uk/threads.htm

Or try one of these (there are at least 6 more pages of links)

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gary Member

gary

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Checking them out should keep you busy for a couple of days then. Hope you find one.

 

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