ginny Report post Posted November 6, 2009 hey all! long time lurker, 1st post! i am *ahem* machine sitting an adler 30-1 for my brother in law until i can get my COBRA FROM STEVE!! bro-in-law confirms that the machine did sew when he got it, so i know it works... i have done some LIGHT cleaning (nothing major) and have oiled the machine. i have a photocopy of a singer 29-4 instruction manual, a 29-k70 instruction manual and the adler 30 manual for mechanics.... however i am having a hard time getting it to thread correctly. at this point, i have the upper thread threaded correctly, to the best i can tell... and have the bobbin in the shuttle. when i hand crank the wheel, the needle goes down, but does not pick up the bobbin thread. i am sure it is something simple like incorrect bobbin placement or something like this... but i am not sure how to fix from this point. anyone that can provide some help would be welcome... and if pictures/video are needed to explain, i will be happy to take/post. thanks for the great forums here, youve been very helpful so far! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Hi Ginny, i think the bobbin will only fit one way. But i might be wrong about that though. Do you have thr thread pulled out long enough on the bobbin for the top thread to pick it up ? I don't think how it's threaded on top will matter on picking the bobbin thread up. But will effect how it sews if it's threaded wrong. A couple of pictures would be handy. I'm sure somebody that knows alot more than me will be by shortly to help you out. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 6, 2009 The top thread must go around the tension disk, then up to the the hole in the takeup arm, down through the hole in the needlebar, and into the eye of the needle, from left to right, with the eye facing to the right. The bobbin should be setup as follows: Load the thread tightly onto the bobbin. Insert the bobbin into the bobbin case so that the thread pulls backwards, from the right side. Pull the thread into the slot in the case, then underneath the tension spring, then through the tiny hole in the case, then through the hole in the top of the post in the case. Leave enough thread to pull up through the hole in the throatplate. Pull the thread up through the hole and seat the throat plate in its detent stud. Rotate the hand wheel to raise the needle, then raise the pressor foot with the lift lever on the back. Insert some material and lower the pressor foot lever, ensuring that the foot is in firm contact with the material. Spin the hand wheel towards (counter-clockwise rotation) you with some material under the pressor foot and see if it sews a stitch or skips stitches. If it still skips, check the spring on the top or back, to ensure that there is good pressure on the pressor foot. Some things that will affect stitching on a patcher include all of the above, plus: wrong needle length, or size for the thread, to much bobbin tension, jammed top thread, or machine out of time at the bobbin. If the machine has gone out of time you should not mess with it, but contact a qualified repair person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 7, 2009 ok, so i uploaded a video to youtube of the action of the bobbin, shuttle and needle... http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xd4TxS_fP2A maybe this helps in the diagnosis... i have tried catching the bobbin thread with and without the plate in place, and with the thread both to the right and left of the main arm... with no luck. wiz, thanks for your post... i am going to re-read your bobbin description SLOWER (lol) in a few min. but wanted to get this posted in the meantime thanks to everyone for your help so far! -ginny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyc1 Report post Posted November 7, 2009 ok, so i uploaded a video to youtube of the action of the bobbin, shuttle and needle... http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xd4TxS_fP2A maybe this helps in the diagnosis... i have tried catching the bobbin thread with and without the plate in place, and with the thread both to the right and left of the main arm... with no luck. wiz, thanks for your post... i am going to re-read your bobbin description SLOWER (lol) in a few min. but wanted to get this posted in the meantime thanks to everyone for your help so far! -ginny I use a Singer patcher and the Eye of the needle and the long groove of the needle need to face left of the machine. It doesn't look as if that is the way you have your needle inserted. Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 7, 2009 Tony, I confirmed the needle is placed as you described... still no results, but at least that is not the issue. thanks! I use a Singer patcher and the Eye of the needle and the long groove of the needle need to face left of the machine. It doesn't look as if that is the way you have your needle inserted. Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barra Report post Posted November 7, 2009 I can't watch youtubes on the computer I am using. When the needle is at the bottom of it's stroke, where is the hook on the bobbin race? Barra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted November 7, 2009 Well the vid needs alittle more light on it for me to be sure but it looks like your threading the needle wrong it's supposed to go from the left to the right,also the long groove of the needle needs to be on the left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted November 7, 2009 I agree with Sewmun, the eye of the needle is pointing towards you, and you need to twist the needle a quarter of a turn to make the machine sew. The groove on the needle should be to the left and the eye pointing from left to right. The machine will sew within seconds and you´ll smile! / Knut Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 7, 2009 sewmun, thanks for your feedback... that issue was already addressed. the needle has been turned correctly, and still the same action. Well the vid needs alittle more light on it for me to be sure but it looks like your threading the needle wrong it's supposed to go from the left to the right,also the long groove of the needle needs to be on the left. here is a picture of the location of the shuttle groove, when the needle is in the full down position. hope this helps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luke Hatley Report post Posted November 7, 2009 OK NOW TRY THIS......above the needle there is a screw that when unlosens will enable you to move the needle very close to the hook on the shuttle, so the needle almost touches the hook. is the needle almost touching the hook? hope this works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 7, 2009 ok, soooo... im a visual person, so i took some more pictures and uploaded another video with better lighting/focus. luke, i dropped the needle down as far as it would go so that it was as low as possible when in the down position. still no luck. 1st are the shots of highest/lowest needle positions, with the plate in/out of position so you can see better. the video shows the correct thread path, including going under the pressure plate etc... followed directions exactly for this, dont think its the problem. 1st thing to note in the video... something as simple as the thread coming off the bobbin... does it go to the left or the right of the machine (front or back in the video, since i am looking at it from the side) also, no matter which way it goes, the thread does not pass UNDER the plate when rotating... is it supposed to? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3iOT7VnU3Y thanks to everyone for their continued patience... it is much appreciated! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Ginny; The needle is in wrong! You have it with the eye facing forward. The eye of the needle must be on the right side, facing the inside of the machine. The thread goes in on the left side and comes out on the right. Further, do not lower the needle in the needle housing. Insert it all the way up in the housing and tighten the bottom screw. The movement described by a previous poster was for the upper screw. That upper screw on the housing allows you to move the needle sideways, closer or farther from the shuttle. When correctly set, the needle goes down as the bobbin case turns clockwise and the pickup point stops behind the needle. Then, the needle lifts momentarily to cause a loop to form on the right side. At that moment, as the machine turns, the pickup point begins turning counterclockwise, grabbing the looped thread, pulling it under the bobbin case and forming the lockstitch. If the thread does not loop on the right side of the needle, there will be no lockstitch! If you lower the needle in the housing the eye may feed the thread under the shuttle drive and around the center post on its bottom, binding up the machine, tearing the top thread through the work. Try these changes, note the timing process above and post your results. Edited November 7, 2009 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 7, 2009 ok, now we're improving maybe a bit... 1st off, thanks for clarifying the needle position... by describing on the right side (facing the inside of the machine). i thought that the right side was the right side while facing the machine headon, but based on your description, the right side is the 'inside' side... when facing the machine from the side... if that makes sense. ok, so i rotated the needle to what i think is the correct position now (will attach picture to confirm) it is also firmly seated up in the housing, but i did loosen and move to the right the TOP screw... so that the needle lays closer to the bobbin when it inserts into the arm, beside the shuttle on the down stroke. as for the shuttle, it is rotating clockwise as is supposed to... now this is where i lose you, because you specify a 'pickup point' and i am not sure where this is on the shuttle, so i am not sure if the shuttle is advancing far enough in the rotation? i DO see the point in the process however where the needle takes a slight lift, before going down again, and then the full take up... so it seems to be correct in its action there. so my next questions are these: 1. when i lay the bobbin into the shuttle, does the thread lay forward towards me, or behind? additionally, when the plate swings into place, should the thread from the bobbin be facing me, or going 'off the back'? 2. explain the pickup point as questioned above? 3. along with #2, the 'loop' you describe that is made, is with the top thread? should i be able to see it? 4. as i understand it, prior to 'sewing' on material, depressing the needle to make the loop and pull up the bobbin thread will pull the bobbin thread thru the swing plate so that it is then prepared to sew... i do not MANUALLY thread the bobbin thread up thru the swing plate, correct? will send more pics/video if needed to see current action. Ginny; The needle is in wrong! You have it with the eye facing forward. The eye of the needle must be on the right side, facing the inside of the machine. The thread goes in on the left side and comes out on the right. Further, do not lower the needle in the needle housing. Insert it all the way up in the housing and tighten the bottom screw. The movement described by a previous poster was for the upper screw. That upper screw on the housing allows you to move the needle sideways, closer or farther from the shuttle. When correctly set, the needle goes down as the bobbin case turns clockwise and the pickup point stops behind the needle. Then, the needle lifts momentarily to cause a loop to form on the right side. At that moment, as the machine turns, the pickup point begins turning counterclockwise, grabbing the looped thread, pulling it under the bobbin case and forming the lockstitch. If the thread does not loop on the right side of the needle, there will be no lockstitch! If you lower the needle in the housing the eye may feed the thread under the shuttle drive and around the center post on its bottom, binding up the machine, tearing the top thread through the work. Try these changes, note the timing process above and post your results. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 7, 2009 Ginny; The needle is now correctly aligned and shifted close to the bobbin case assemble. Good! It looks like it is ready to sew. All you need to do is rotate the hand wheel towards you one full turn. The needle should go down, hopefully form a loop, then capture the bobbin thread and pull it up through the needle hole. I usually push the bobbin thread up through the hole after inserting the bobbin. This removes one point of failure from the equation. It matters not which way the bobbin thread lies while waiting to be picked up. The pickup point is the part of the bobbin case that is tapered into a narrow, sharp point. That is where the top thread's loop is captured, then pulled over and under the bobbin case. Yes, the top thread forms the loop, in the eye of der noddle (a movie title). You should be able to place material under the pressor foot and sew. Have you tested it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 8, 2009 wiz, thanks again as usual... ok, so, i dont think the needle is forming a loop? i have tried manually pushing the bobbin thread up thru and then adding the material, dropping the presser foot, and trying to sew, with no luck. two interesting things to note here, again... still no 'loop' from what i can tell... so needle penetrates the material easily, but does not create a 'stitch'. now, 2nd thing... does the foot not 'advance' the material much like a walking foot? if it is supposed to, it is not... simply goes up and down in the same position, with the needle passing thru the same hole repeatedly. i do not know if this is a 'separate' issue... or a symptom of the lack of loop/stitch etc. Ginny; The needle is now correctly aligned and shifted close to the bobbin case assemble. Good! It looks like it is ready to sew. All you need to do is rotate the hand wheel towards you one full turn. The needle should go down, hopefully form a loop, then capture the bobbin thread and pull it up through the needle hole. I usually push the bobbin thread up through the hole after inserting the bobbin. This removes one point of failure from the equation. It matters not which way the bobbin thread lies while waiting to be picked up. The pickup point is the part of the bobbin case that is tapered into a narrow, sharp point. That is where the top thread's loop is captured, then pulled over and under the bobbin case. Yes, the top thread forms the loop, in the eye of der noddle (a movie title). You should be able to place material under the pressor foot and sew. Have you tested it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) The pressor foot has a knob on the back of it. The know sets the stitch length. I usually raise the pressor foot with the lifter lever, loosen the screw behind the foot, lower the foot as far as it will go, in the raised up position, then tighten the screw. When you drop the lifter lever the pressor foot should be pushed by the two protruding steel brackets, pulling the material backwards, creating the stitch length. Failure to feed can be caused by a slider on the back of the machine. It has a butterfly knob and it moves a device left or right, along the main tensioning leaf spring. I usually set it all the way to the notch in the spring, giving maximum lift to the foot and length to the stitch. I have to go out for the rest of the night. Perhaps another sewing machine mechanic will be able to assist you until I return tomorrow. We will get this sorted out, unless the machine is broken, or totally work out. Edited November 8, 2009 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) Wiz, no prob about tonight/tomorrow... we'll get to it as soon as we're both available... 1. so i tried stitching with material with the stitch length regulator in a variety of positions... and most importantly, i still have no thread being pulled up by the bobbin... so the primary issue remains NO LOOP? 2. that aside, the presser foot is only advancing the material when the stitch regulator bracket is at its lowest point (resulting in very very short stitches). when i move the bracket up to simulate longer stitches, the foot begins to simply go up and down... though i can wiggle the foot back and forth, and it has more 'play' as it should. 3. per the pictures, you will note there is a leather 'wedge' that has been fashioned for use below the rear spring. now this has been in place since my brother in law got the machine, and the machine HAS sewn correct stitches for him... so i dont know if it is a repair to replace a missing piece or a modification... but it shouldnt be impairing the machine function? sooooo, back to zero at this point... i still think there is a loop creation issue that from what i can tell isnt happening... you just let me know what you think, and your further advice, im open to trying anything! The pressor foot has a knob on the back of it. The know sets the stitch length. I usually raise the pressor foot with the lifter lever, loosen the screw behind the foot, lower the foot as far as it will go, in the raised up position, then tighten the screw. When you drop the lifter lever the pressor foot should be pushed by the two protruding steel brackets, pulling the material backwards, creating the stitch length. Failure to feed can be caused by a slider on the back of the machine. It has a butterfly knob and it moves a device left or right, along the main tensioning leaf spring. I usually set it all the way to the notch in the spring, giving maximum lift to the foot and length to the stitch. I have to go out for the rest of the night. Perhaps another sewing machine mechanic will be able to assist you until I return tomorrow. We will get this sorted out, unless the machine is broken, or totally work out. Edited November 8, 2009 by ginny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Ginny; I looked at your recent photos of the needle regulator. It is set way too high. Lower it as far as it will go, with the pressor foot in the lifted and locked position. You lift the foot with a lever on the back. When it reaches a certain height it locks in the up position. That is the height where the butterfly disks in the thread tensioner are released. With the foot locked in the lifted up position, loosen the screw on the sliding bracket behind the foot and slide it down as far as it will go, then tighten the back screw. In that position you should be able to get 5 or 6 stitches per inch. If you move the stitch length regulator bracket down and still get little or no feed, and the long spring on the back is exerting sufficient pressure to secure the foot on the material, then the mechanism that the pressor foot rotates within (the ring with the big butterfly knobs, over the needle assembly, which turns the foot) may be worn out beyond usefulness. If that is the case the machine is shot. The worn parts will need to be replaced, or built up with brazing or welding to reduce the slack. Everything else look like it is setup properly. However, the failure to stitch is not resolved, despite all of our efforts. You should seek out a knowledgeable sewing machine mechanic within driving distance and take the machine to him or her, for evaluation and possible repairs. Note, that replacement parts for Adler patchers are usually much more expensive than for Singer patchers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginny Report post Posted November 9, 2009 hahaha... pictures are worth a 1000 words... shouldnt have used that picture! as i stated in the last post, "the presser foot is only advancing the material when the stitchregulator bracket is at its lowest point (resulting in very very shortstitches). when i move the bracket up to simulate longer stitches, thefoot begins to simply go up and down" so, i DO have the bracket in the lowest position, UNLIKE where it was in the picture. so, with the bracket in the lowest position, it IS advancing the material... however in much smaller increments than 5-6 per inch, more like 10-12 per inch. in addition, i still dont think i am getting a loop when the needle goes down, which as far as a know is the root issue... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 10, 2009 Ginny; I just saw how you mistook my phrase "lowest position" for the stitch regulator as being based on the numbers on the bars! I meant physically lowest point, downward, which would be around number 5 on the bar. With the pressor foot and needle up, carefully grab a-hold of the bottom of the foot and see how much wiggle there is forward and backward. If there is a fair amount of movement possible when you push and pull the foot forward/backward, the part that causes the stitches to advance is worn out. I can't give an exact amount of motion, but I would feel confident in saying that if that foot can be moved 1/8" or more, the drive mechanism is worn out. A machinist who bronze brazes may be able to reduce the slack, or, you may be able to buy replacement parts somewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luke Hatley Report post Posted November 10, 2009 ............i do beleive it's time to get a sewing machine repair person.. and do tell us what he did to fix the machine. i really want to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted November 10, 2009 ok, soooo... im a visual person, so i took some more pictures and uploaded another video with better lighting/focus. luke, i dropped the needle down as far as it would go so that it was as low as possible when in the down position. still no luck. 1st are the shots of highest/lowest needle positions, with the plate in/out of position so you can see better. the video shows the correct thread path, including going under the pressure plate etc... followed directions exactly for this, dont think its the problem. 1st thing to note in the video... something as simple as the thread coming off the bobbin... does it go to the left or the right of the machine (front or back in the video, since i am looking at it from the side) also, no matter which way it goes, the thread does not pass UNDER the plate when rotating... is it supposed to? http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G3iOT7VnU3Y thanks to everyone for their continued patience... it is much appreciated! Hi Ginny, by looking at the 4 thumbnail pictures, the third one to be exact, I see the needle is not in the machine correctly. You should be able to thread the machine left to right. I also see the scarf(the cutout above the eye),it too should be facing to the right. Turn the needle 90 degrees to the right and see what happens. Thanks, Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted November 10, 2009 One last try: Do you have the right needle in your machine? In my Adler 30-1 I use either 332 LL or Singer 29x3 needle system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luke Hatley Report post Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) TO ADD WHAT OLDTIMER SAID, MY ADLER 30-5 USES A "L0NG" NEEDLE # 332 29X3 022 dix3 GROZ-BECKERT THIS INFORMATION IS WHAT IS ON THE PACKAGE Edited November 10, 2009 by Luke Hatley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
