Grab Strap

[ArtS]

Can anyone tell me how to make a strap like this? Is this braided or what?

Thanks,

ArtS

[HorsehairBraider]

I've heard people call that "slit braiding", but you don't actually use several strings to make it. What you do is cut a slit in the center of the strap at one end, pull the strap through, cut another slit, pull the strap through etc. If you look carefully at that really nice clear photo, you can even see the sections where the slit is - you can see straight through the strap, right in the center. Then there will be a little section of solid, another section where you can see a slit etc. If you had the strap laid out, the slits would be like this: - - - - -

Hope that's clear... Not so sure now that I've read back over it!

[ArtS]

Thank you! I've been looking at it thinking that it looks as if it was twisted or something like that. Your explanation is perfect. Tomorrow morning I'm going to try one.

I was looking on the net. and it appears that they call this a Cowboy Night Latch.

Thanks again!

ArtS

I've heard people call that "slit braiding", but you don't actually use several strings to make it. What you do is cut a slit in the center of the strap at one end, pull the strap through, cut another slit, pull the strap through etc. If you look carefully at that really nice clear photo, you can even see the sections where the slit is - you can see straight through the strap, right in the center. Then there will be a little section of solid, another section where you can see a slit etc. If you had the strap laid out, the slits would be like this: - - - - -

Hope that's clear... Not so sure now that I've read back over it!

[bruce johnson]

Art,

For everyone who has not heard the term, a "nightlatch" is something to grab onto to prevent getting bucked off. Basically something to lift against to keep you down in your saddle. As an aside, unless that guy is left handed, or reins with his right hand for some other reason, a nightlatch should be on the right side of the swells.

I am not sure how that one is fastened. Some people use a loose strap buckled through the gullet. You grab it kind of like a suitcase handle. I have heard it termed a "knucklebuster night latch". as the horse is pitching his little fit, your knuckles are banging on the swells. Another style is a doubled pigging string with thetail pulled out of the eye. Double it and feed it through the gullet. Then bring the eye and the tail up through the formed loop. You grab the free ends of the string. Other guys use a similar one made from a rope or braided rope witrh a small eye. Looped aroungd the gullet and fed through the eye. Some guys feel that the firm attachment of the knucklebuster could be an issue if you do hang up a spur or toe in it on the way out. The single eye rope, or doubled string is thought to be safer, it will pull loose. Most guys are carrying a couple strings, so it is a handy place to carry one anyway. Other guys dispense with the nightlatch and pull on the rope coils. All in what you are carrying, and where you learned it at. Greg, Ryan, and some of the guys who have been around have probably seen other variations or terms.

[SmokinP]

Just a little info on these things.

They got called "night latches" from days when a fella had to do night watch on a herd. If you took hold of it when you got set up it was supposed to keep ya from fallin outta the saddle if ya dozed off.

We always called em "cheater straps". Like Bruce said. they'd keep ya stuck in the saddle better if got one that had a little spunk in him. Hangin on to the horn puts your hand in a bad position and doesn't work near as good. Ya kinda want the strap tight to the swell so it kinda works like a bareback rigging rather than flop around.

I've used ropes, the belt outta my pants and old latigos. Best thing I've found for dealin with a rough one is to have a young feller nearby that you can shame into gettin on em.

[ArtS]

LOL. Good advice on getting the younger fellow to ride 'em. I was thinking of putting one on my father in law's saddle that I'm making for him. Since he's getting older I thought it might help him.ArtS

Just a little info on these things.They got called "night latches" from days when a fella had to do night watch on a herd. If you took hold of it when you got set up it was supposed to keep ya from fallin outta the saddle if ya dozed off. We always called em "cheater straps". Like Bruce said. they'd keep ya stuck in the saddle better if got one that had a little spunk in him. Hangin on to the horn puts your hand in a bad position and doesn't work near as good. Ya kinda want the strap tight to the swell so it kinda works like a bareback rigging rather than flop around. I've used ropes, the belt outta my pants and old latigos. Best thing I've found for dealin with a rough one is to have a young feller nearby that you can shame into gettin on em.

Thanks Bruce. Looking on the net for Night Latch I found some of the tied strings. You always are a well of knowledge. Experience pays in the end.ArtS

Art, For everyone who has not heard the term, a "nightlatch" is something to grab onto to prevent getting bucked off. Basically something to lift against to keep you down in your saddle. As an aside, unless that guy is left handed, or reins with his right hand for some other reason, a nightlatch should be on the right side of the swells. I am not sure how that one is fastened. Some people use a loose strap buckled through the gullet. You grab it kind of like a suitcase handle. I have heard it termed a "knucklebuster night latch". as the horse is pitching his little fit, your knuckles are banging on the swells. Another style is a doubled pigging string with thetail pulled out of the eye. Double it and feed it through the gullet. Then bring the eye and the tail up through the formed loop. You grab the free ends of the string. Other guys use a similar one made from a rope or braided rope witrh a small eye. Looped aroungd the gullet and fed through the eye. Some guys feel that the firm attachment of the knucklebuster could be an issue if you do hang up a spur or toe in it on the way out. The single eye rope, or doubled string is thought to be safer, it will pull loose. Most guys are carrying a couple strings, so it is a handy place to carry one anyway. Other guys dispense with the nightlatch and pull on the rope coils. All in what you are carrying, and where you learned it at. Greg, Ryan, and some of the guys who have been around have probably seen other variations or terms.

[Romey]

They are a great way to get yourself jerked forward and off head first AND head/neck first hitting the ground and well as people that do get pitched often dont let go right away so your body becomes a whip. Ride your horse not your saddle

[JRedding]

I'm backin' Romey on this one, the nightlatch falls in there with never button the bottom button on a Levi jacket, don't have a rope strap stout enough to pull your truck out of the mud, and the one it seems everyone today seems not to know rig the connection in the front of your chaps so it will tear out long before you get hung upside down and beat unconcius. There are more ways to get stacked up and hurt than we can discuss here. Saddlemakers and repairmen have a responsibility to know the things that will get someone hurt, and look out for those that don't know any better if you're going to do this kind of work. Just because it's an old idea doesn't mean it's a good idea, and in todays world of lawyers and liability it's best not to send things out of your shop that might get someone hurt, even under rare circumstance. If they want that stuff let them figure it out on their own, they can steal the coller off their dog and buckle that on there if they think it's a good idea.

[gtwister09]

JRedding/Romey,

I had to chuckle :D when reading these posts due to the fact that all three of those tidbits and more were conveyed to me by my Dad or other ranchers. In fact I can remember one older hand (actually he owned several ranches but you would have never known it) asking a new hand if they used that nightlatch and he said, "Yes I do every now and then." Well he rode over and with his pocket knife cut it off and said to him, "Ride your horse not your saddle. I won't have you hurt riding with me." That same day he also modified his rope strap as well.

Regards,

Ben

[SmokinP]

Where were you guys in my younger days? Nobody ever told me about gettin launched on my head like that. Maybe that's why I can't never find a hat to fit right?

[ArtS]

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I'll remember it and abide by it. They make good sense to me. I wouldn't have ever put one on my saddle. I was taught from the beginning to ride the horse not the saddle and that has saved me more than a few times from getting hurt.

ArtS

[waddy]

I have to say I really admire all you bronc stompers out there who can ride the tough ones without "pullin' leather". I must admit that I have been in many storms that required (in my mind, at least) me to grab anything I could get aholt of, and I did just that. SHAMEFULL!!! Actually, I have never ridden a saddle with a night latch, and never been with anybody who did (and that's a lot of genuine cowboys). For those of us who feel the shameful need to hang on to something while "enjoying" a little bit of a pony tantrum, hanging onto the rear edge of a Cheyenne Roll is a great help, and works much better than the horn. I agree with smokinp, with the exception that I like Clinton Anderson's suggestion even better: "Get your wife drunk and put her on him!" Forgive me for getting a little far afield from the original post, it just seemed like fun! I have had a couple of requests to put leather night latches on saddles, and have stuggled with a good way to attach them without using buckles. It seems to me that a buckle jerked through your hand could do a lot of damage. I tried to talk them into just putting on a chunk of rope secured with a "rope buckle" knot, but that was too ugly! I ended up cutting a thick piece of harness leather, rounding the edges with a large edger until it was nearly a round. I made one end large enough to punch a bag punch through and ran the free end through the hole and tied it with the rope buckle knot. It's now fully adjustable, with no sharp, hard edges to cut into your hand.

[greg gomersall]

Grabbing the horn or the cantle will put your body out of position to ride a rank one. If you place your hand on the top of the horn and push down on it your shoulders will square up, push your pelvis into position where it should be and your gonna weather the storm. In theory it works but in reality it is hard. That,s why some people are more fork-ed than others. Greg

[bruce johnson]

Greg,

I was taught at the "Playtex 18 hour cross your heart bra school of amateur bronc riding". I'm getting old, that was 20 plus yrs ago??? Still seems like funny advice now, but I remember it. "Okay, Ladies, we are going to lift and separate". Lift and separate. LIFT up not back on whatever you got (rein or handle, although a nightlatch kind of fits a bit like a bronc rein) and SEPARATE your knees when you lift to get a deeper hold and slide you back down. Then there was all that bow your back/don't arch, you only grab to your knees, eyeball the spot 4" behind their ears (like I saw that very much), tuck your chin, don't squeeze your cheeks, and of course Dave Stamey's musical advice "Don't forget to stay loose!"

[bcurrier]

Just to show how perspectives differ, I think I've ridden maybe once in a western saddle, and that for a few minutes. I grew up riding english, and there's NOTHING to grab. Which also means, given that I'm not exactly an Olympics level rider (talk about understatements), on my behind on occasion. And all this time I've thought how nice and secure those western rigs look!

Bill

[Don101]

this is a sure interesting topic as i hade never heard of such a thing historically although i could imagin a handy thing if you are on the night watch over a hundred years ago on cattle drive and dog tired, i also love some of the replys and reminds me of a great song the cowboy in the continental suit, Don

[JRedding]

Whoa, It appears me and Romey lit the fuse on this one, lucky for me I learned those tricks from my dad and other guys I guess qualify as old timers now,instead of figuring it all out the hard way. They taught us those things to help keep us alive. Those old timers rode rougher horses than we did, and I guess my generation probably got to see rougher horses than my boy will, we started five year old horses and my dad acted like that was a luxury to start'em so young.I wish I had been the bronc stomper Waddy refers to at the time, I've found more ways to get bucked off than Martha Stewart's found to ruin hamburger, and walked in way too many times, but I guess that was their point, as long as you come walkin' in everything was alright. Most of the people who ride a horse today will never get to spend a day with those old guys, it didn't seem like much of a treat at the time to have them constantly riden' my a@#, but the truth is their old ways wound up savin' it more than once. I'm in Utah, Romeys in Montana, and twister is in Texas, it's a good bet our fathers never met, but it appears they all had the same lessons to pass on, and they were still breathin' to pass it on to us, and that's the real lesson in doing a few little things to stay safe, and I think it's still worth passing on.

[gtwister09]

Whoa, It appears me and Romey lit the fuse on this one, lucky for me I learned those tricks from my dad and other guys I guess qualify as old timers now,instead of figuring it all out the hard way. They taught us those things to help keep us alive. Those old timers rode rougher horses than we did, and I guess my generation probably got to see rougher horses than my boy will, we started five year old horses and my dad acted like that was a luxury to start'em so young.I wish I had been the bronc stomper Waddy refers to at the time, I've found more ways to get bucked off than Martha Stewart's found to ruin hamburger, and walked in way too many times, but I guess that was their point, as long as you come walkin' in everything was alright. Most of the people who ride a horse today will never get to spend a day with those old guys, it didn't seem like much of a treat at the time to have them constantly riden' my a@#, but the truth is their old ways wound up savin' it more than once. I'm in Utah, Romeys in Montana, and twister is in Texas, it's a good bet our fathers never met, but it appears they all had the same lessons to pass on, and they were still breathin' to pass it on to us, and that's the real lesson in doing a few little things to stay safe, and I think it's still worth passing on.

I was transplanted to Texas for a job. I grew up in New Mexico. Lesson there is be careful when you say that you won't live soemewhere. I wound up living where I said I wouldn't.

The older hands gave us lots of life lessons and yes I have been on my head and walking more times than I would ever care to admit. They also taught you about hard work, how to work, how to stay alive and also how to be safe. Your right about luxury in horses. My Dad bought several horses from rodeo stock and those were some of the main horses that we rode and learned on from 4 or 5 until I left home. Of course others came and left as they were traded around as well.

Regards,

Ben

[Hidemechanic]

After findin this thread I was twitchin in my seat waitin for the end of it while I was thinking of a polite way to say what did get said. Thank goodness some wisdom appeared. I only built this strap for a couple stubborn mule riders(riders were stubborn not the mules). Talk anyone else out of it.

I found that being a saddle maker I wound up being somewhat of an educater of horse training and riding. To be honest, what I shared with those willing to listen was just a suppliment to what they were being taught by the trainers, or read from books, ARRH!!

I had wantabe cowboys who weren't too proud to listen, learned to ride circles around their bucaroo buds. City folk that bought property and thought they had to put horses on it because they had it, who thought that something was wrong with their push botton high dollor highly trained horse, learn that sometimes ill fitting equipment and poorly trained riders brought out bad behavior, and the horse would act up too.

Frankly and thankfully I probably save some good horses from going to the kill plant sharing what I had learned.

Well that's off the subject, and I'm not tooting my horn just re-making the point that because something got made for use on a saddle doesn't mean it's a cure all. It may have worked for a few people but they were lucky and got away with it. The next guy might not.

In short, teach the horse not to buck, learn to carry your weight in ballence and centered with the horse.

As was mentioned holding something in front of you will pull you forward of center and your seat out of the saddle. My next youngest son was learning to ride and wouldn't quit grabbing the horn and he kept falling off. I cut his horn off, then he started grabing what was left of the swells. I took his saddle away and said now you learn to ride the horse and I'll give you your saddle back. Frankly I think everyone should ride bare back now and again just to remember what the horse is doing. Builds up those good riding muscles.

BTW, isn't that what the 'Chyane Roll' was made for? A handle to keep you in center and in the seat? LOL

Keep your shoulders to the sky. Enjoy the ride. GHackett

[Romey]

I once seen a Ray Hunt clinic and have seen others like it where the people were instructed to grab the horn with one hand and cheyenne roll with the other untill thier horse stopped pitching. At the time I was a fairly young 19 or 20ish year old rough stock rider fresh from filling my permit and working for a trainer where we often took in remidal horses in. I was in shock to see anyone grab leaher in that manner and completely gie over all form of control untill years later and seeing as well as being involved with many more clinics that the reason for that was about the safest way a person can show a group of strangers a one doesnt know thier abilities on how to stay abourd. Now to my eyes not one horse at that clinic that did do much more then fart was in anyway pitching but now i understand the reasoning, the trouble was and still is that I garentee, alot of those people came away thinking thats how it should be dont because Ray said so, i say this because i did ask someone who was there if they still did and they did. My reply was, "what you gunna do if you have a calf dallied on, its cow with her head inder your horse, your horse pitching a fit and your dogs having a high time of it all?"

Losing that whatever control you have left over the situation is about the worst thing one can do for all involved. Obviously best not to get in those wrecks but it happens and anyone it hasnt happened to hasnt cowboyed enough. It just happens. I rode rough stock for a LOOOONG time and my best rides (or worst depending on your outlook) I ever had there wasnt a judge, pretty girl or ambulance in miles to my dismay.

I once watched a pretty lil english rider gal ride a hell of a pitchin horse without hardly so much as pullin rein much less saddle( I had been watching her close before hand so seen the action )

Now I have been in a roping saddle before on some lil sneaks severaltimes that caught me paying attention to cows then them and have grabbed some coils to get my seat but from exsperiance I know to let go, was pitched and drug by the arm from a coiled catch rope across a track once and the rope scar on my arm is a super reminder why once ya get your seat to let go , trust your balance ,riding ability and horsesense enough to calm the storm.

A nightlatch as said is a interesting peice of history but though I cant directly quote the man i do recall Will James mentioning them in a book saying somthing to the effect of "No cowhand worth his salt would be caught dead with one" or somthign like that. By all accounts it would be hard to find a better bronc hand then that fella but then again look at the saddles they used, I have rode in some of them and ya about have to want to be dumped to have it happen. Horses today are bigger, more athletic, maybe not meaner but definilty on a average harder buckers when they do then about any period in time, unfortunitly riders seem to be going the opposite way.

All this is just my opinion ofcourse and not ment or directed at anyone in this post, just coffee talk, but i know how to get bucked off and on a real pitchin horse not just crow hoppin and farting, grabbin anything other then you wits will allow ya to test your soil content goin FORWARD, read head first. Friend of mine have a picture of me doing just that, head first,saddle betwix my thighs about to taste mud and horse goin the other way, if i find my copy ill scan it and post. Youll get a chuckle, though i did crack 2 vertebrea in my neck..

Musta been a tandy billet, JOSHIN YA!

Edited January 16, 2008 by Romey

[ArtS]

It's real experience like this that makes this site a pleasure to read. It's worth it's weight in gold.

ArtS

I once seen a Ray Hunt clinic and have seen others like it where the people were instructed to grab the horn with one hand and cheyenne roll with the other untill thier horse stopped pitching. At the time I was a fairly young 19 or 20ish year old rough stock rider fresh from filling my permit and working for a trainer where we often took in remidal horses in. I was in shock to see anyone grab leaher in that manner and completely gie over all form of control untill years later and seeing as well as being involved with many more clinics that the reason for that was about the safest way a person can show a group of strangers a one doesnt know thier abilities on how to stay abourd. Now to my eyes not one horse at that clinic that did do much more then fart was in anyway pitching but now i understand the reasoning, the trouble was and still is that I garentee, alot of those people came away thinking thats how it should be dont because Ray said so, i say this because i did ask someone who was there if they still did and they did. My reply was, "what you gunna do if you have a calf dallied on, its cow with her head inder your horse, your horse pitching a fit and your dogs having a high time of it all?"

Losing that whatever control you have left over the situation is about the worst thing one can do for all involved. Obviously best not to get in those wrecks but it happens and anyone it hasnt happened to hasnt cowboyed enough. It just happens. I rode rough stock for a LOOOONG time and my best rides (or worst depending on your outlook) I ever had there wasnt a judge, pretty girl or ambulance in miles to my dismay.

I once watched a pretty lil english rider gal ride a hell of a pitchin horse without hardly so much as pullin rein much less saddle( I had been watching her close before hand so seen the action )

Now I have been in a roping saddle before on some lil sneaks severaltimes that caught me paying attention to cows then them and have grabbed some coils to get my seat but from exsperiance I know to let go, was pitched and drug by the arm from a coiled catch rope across a track once and the rope scar on my arm is a super reminder why once ya get your seat to let go , trust your balance ,riding ability and horsesense enough to calm the storm.

A nightlatch as said is a interesting peice of history but though I cant directly quote the man i do recall Will James mentioning them in a book saying somthing to the effect of "No cowhand worth his salt would be caught dead with one" or somthign like that. By all accounts it would be hard to find a better bronc hand then that fella but then again look at the saddles they used, I have rode in some of them and ya about have to want to be dumped to have it happen. Horses today are bigger, more athletic, maybe not meaner but definilty on a average harder buckers when they do then about any period in time, unfortunitly riders seem to be going the opposite way.

All this is just my opinion ofcourse and not ment or directed at anyone in this post, just coffee talk, but i know how to get bucked off and on a real pitchin horse not just crow hoppin and farting, grabbin anything other then you wits will allow ya to test your soil content goin FORWARD, read head first. Friend of mine have a picture of me doing just that, head first,saddle betwix my thighs about to taste mud and horse goin the other way, if i find my copy ill scan it and post. Youll get a chuckle, though i did crack 2 vertebrea in my neck..

Musta been a tandy billet, JOSHIN YA!

[jwwright]

After 30 years of full time cowboyin, ranchin, and training horses........I too, have been my fair share of storms. I did put a rope type nightlatch on one of my wades one time. Did me no good, personally. Heck when a storm was brewing, reaching for that nightlatch was the last thing I needed to do. Hard to find it, and dropping my shoulders forward fishing for it was counter productive for sure. I think it was on that saddle for about 1/2 day. I will grab leather, but it is usually not grabbing, it is pushing back with the palm of my hand on the horn. Even though I have started a large number of colts, I never was a good bronc rider...........I have always done my best to keep one from feeling like they need to pitch. Not always successful, for sure.

"If you see your stirrups slap together above the horn, you're probably bucked off". Dave Stamey.

[BondageMaster]

That was a most enjoyable read and I feel obliged to post just to say thanks.

Joining this forum has been quite the pleasant surprise.

Thanks again for sharing.

BM

[Cora]

I am a firm believer in Less is More, the less you have between you and your horse the more you will learn from him. That's just my $0.02

Cora

[TwinOaks]

All this talk about night latches and the problems with using your hands....and not one person has bothered to mention to the youngin's that a horn ain't a handle. With all the interest in "western pleasure" riding I'd think that some saddle makers would just make a quick detachable horn. Nice little twist lock jobby so that if the saddle needs to be used for roping it can be, but for the 'rent-a-ride' crowd you can just take it off. I like the comment about cutting off the horn, then taking the saddle away. It seems like sometimes that's the only way to teach a person to use their butt. Now, for all readers that don't already know it, A Horn Is Not A Handle. It's an attachment point for the dumb end of a lasso, so that the poor horse ain't got to hold the rope with his teeth. There, I've said it, and I'm sure there will be dissenting opinions, but there it is.

Now before anyone goes too far in their assumptions about me...No, I'm not a ranch hand; and my wife's horse died before she'd let me ride him. However, I was taught by a 'lifer' from Idaho, using an unbroken 4 year old stallion as the class room. A few moments after getting on his back, the show started and I wished to high Heaven that the horn on that saddle had never been invented. It was like the launch tab on a rubber band gun. ( I can still hear Lynn yelling "Let go of the @$%$%^$%^ horn, you idiot!") Two days, and three fifths later, the stallion and I came to an understanding- If I didn't hold on to the horn, he didn't give me flying lessons. Besides, if your hand has a death grip on the horn, you can't use it to flap with.

Edited January 18, 2008 by TwinOaks