Holster Sewing Machines - Lets Talk

[olliesrevenge]

I have only been leatherworking for 2 months now but I have found that I really enjoy it and am considering taking this hobby to the next level by buying an intro level sewing machine. I mainly enjoy the creative process of creating my own patterns and tweaking holster designs of my own creation. Although I feel I have become decent at hand sewing, it is kind of a drag & is by far the most time consuming build element for a hand sewer.

As far as I can tell there really are only 4 main choices for a novice holster builder like myself who is looking for the most reasonably priced sewing machine. A machine by Cowboy Sew might fit into the "intro level" category, but they do not post prices on their site and I have yet to call them.

Right now the Techsew GA5-1R looks the most attractive to me. It only can sew up to 7/16" thickness (about 4 layers of 7 oz leather), but am I correct in thinking that will be enough for someone who will build only holsters?

If the Boss was available for under a thousand dollars it would make it a 'no brainer' choice for me, but is the ability to sew up to 3/4" really worth the extra cost? Particularly since it is a manually operated machine?

If cost was no option a TORO 3000 or a Cobra Class 3 would obviously be the way to go. But in the real world where price matters, I am forced to ask -

• Is the abiility to sew 3/4" or thicker leather worth the extra cost for a holster maker?

and, if not...

• Does the quality of the Artisan or TORO machine justify the additional cost over the Techsew?

I appreciate any thoughts on this stuff, particularly from experienced folks who have owned one or more of these machines.

Thanks,

Lance

Edited March 17, 2010 by olliesrevenge

[jbird]

Howdy Lance

I own and run a holster making shop, I will kind of lay out why there is only one real choice when it comes to a machine for holsters.

First of all I own a Cobra and it's a real beauty but before I go there lets talk thickness, if you can only sew 7/16 then you have issues first being that it will be hard on your machine and you will if taking this for real you will do holsters with plugs that will exceed your ability to sew and that will burn big time.

Second you cant just take price there are so many other things to think of, I have never ever dealt with any one close to the level of service steve provides he is their night or day to help you out, and if I read right this is your first machine big deal, you want get that help from any other company guaranteed.

Third you will receive all the attachment need in that price!

I have had a couple bad experiences with artisan and have heard many others just my two cents there.

and lastly you will never have to worry about your machine its covered.

do your self a favor call Steve then call the others.

hope this helps.

Josh

Edited March 17, 2010 by jbird

[Denster]

I would have to vote for the Boss as an entry level machine for holsters. You can generally pick one up on eBay lightly used for around $900. Maybe a little more depending on attachments. You will not pick up much speed going to a powered machine over the Boss. The machines like the Cobra, which is excellent, do offer more throat clearance which is sometimes convenient. From my perspective the Boss is virtually indestructable. I have two, both used when I purchased them, and they have sewen in excess of 2000 holsters between them and the only thing I have broken is two needles. Both my fault. They are simple and if you are the slightest bit mechanically inclined you can work on them yourself. If not Tippmann will rebuild them and warrent them like new for around $150.

One other good thing is that if you decide to go with say a Cobra later you can put the Boss on eBay and recover all of your money.

I have an aerostitch as well but use it only for belts. I still do all the holster work on the Boss.

[jbird]

I also should mention that the new eps motor is on all models if you want it.

Josh

[lorens]

I have only been leatherworking for 2 months now but I have found that I really enjoy it and am considering taking this hobby to the next level by buying an intro level sewing machine. I mainly enjoy the creative process of creating my own patterns and tweaking holster designs of my own creation. Although I feel I have become decent at hand sewing, it is kind of a drag & is by far the most time consuming build element for a hand sewer.

As far as I can tell there really are only 4 main choices for a novice holster builder like myself who is looking for the most reasonably priced sewing machine. A machine by Cowboy Sew might fit into the "intro level" category, but they do not post prices on their site and I have yet to call them.

Right now the Techsew GA5-1R looks the most attractive to me. It only can sew up to 7/16" thickness (about 4 layers of 7 oz leather), but am I correct in thinking that will be enough for someone who will build only holsters?

If the Boss was available for under a thousand dollars it would make it a 'no brainer' choice for me, but is the ability to sew up to 3/4" really worth the extra cost? Particularly since it is a manually operated machine?

If cost was no option a TORO 3000 or a Cobra Class 3 would obviously be the way to go. But in the real world where price matters, I am forced to ask -

• Is the abiility to sew 3/4" or thicker leather worth the extra cost for a holster maker?

and, if not...

• Does the quality of the Artisan or TORO machine justify the additional cost over the Techsew?

I appreciate any thoughts on this stuff, particularly from experienced folks who have owned one or more of these machines.

Thanks,

Lance

[Art]

Hi Lance,

Don't buy using price as a criteria. You have a few options.

1. A used Cast Iron Boss, pick it up for $800 (they are out there) and have Tippmann rebuild it if necessary.

Don't use the Boss for belts, a half hour of pulling the handle is more than enough.

The medium duty machines really are inadequate for a holster maker. I regularly exceed where my 618 would go. Also you are limited by the room under the arm both height and width, and you are restricted to size 207 thread, and I know mine likes 138 or 69 a whole lot better than 207. I can make it work, but why? You will kick yourself quite a few times after you do one gunbelt with bullet loops on a medium machine.

2. Bite the bullet and buy a 441 class machine, and right up front get one with a 16 inch arm as opposed to a nine or twelve inch. Get one with a needle positioning motor if you can afford it. As you are new at this, you will need a little (or maybe a lot) of handholding, and there is no one better for that than Steve Tayrien at Leather Machine Company (Cobra). The Cobra Class 4 is the best 441 clone out there regardless of price, but the price is good too.

Buy the big stitcher first as it is hard to find a good used 441 clone or not. The medium weight (upholstery) machines like a Highlead 618, Nakagima 280L, Pfaff 545 or 1245, Juki 1541, Consew 206, and many others all come up regularly on the used market if you keep your eyes open; watch Craig's List after you get some experience with the 441.

Art

I have only been leatherworking for 2 months now but I have found that I really enjoy it and am considering taking this hobby to the next level by buying an intro level sewing machine. I mainly enjoy the creative process of creating my own patterns and tweaking holster designs of my own creation. Although I feel I have become decent at hand sewing, it is kind of a drag & is by far the most time consuming build element for a hand sewer.

As far as I can tell there really are only 4 main choices for a novice holster builder like myself who is looking for the most reasonably priced sewing machine. A machine by Cowboy Sew might fit into the "intro level" category, but they do not post prices on their site and I have yet to call them.

Right now the Techsew GA5-1R looks the most attractive to me. It only can sew up to 7/16" thickness (about 4 layers of 7 oz leather), but am I correct in thinking that will be enough for someone who will build only holsters?

If the Boss was available for under a thousand dollars it would make it a 'no brainer' choice for me, but is the ability to sew up to 3/4" really worth the extra cost? Particularly since it is a manually operated machine?

If cost was no option a TORO 3000 or a Cobra Class 3 would obviously be the way to go. But in the real world where price matters, I am forced to ask -

• Is the abiility to sew 3/4" or thicker leather worth the extra cost for a holster maker?

and, if not...

• Does the quality of the Artisan or TORO machine justify the additional cost over the Techsew?

I appreciate any thoughts on this stuff, particularly from experienced folks who have owned one or more of these machines.

Thanks,

Lance

[Bassi]

I can say a bit about the COBRA Class 3. I got mine about three months ago and have been using it on a regular basis ever sense. The BOSS is a good machine for the money and is great for the beginner as far as sewing machines go. But it you want to click it up a notch or two the Cobra is by far the best way to go in my book (notice I said in my book lol).

A mechanical machine does so much to increase the quality of your work and is well worth the money to purchase one. My only regreat is that I wish I had waited to get the new electric positioning system now available on all COBRA machines. It is a great time saving device. I have talked with Steve (CobraSteve) and he says I can get my fitted with the system. I cant believe it will make it even better than it already is. Bottom line is, if you can afford a mechanical machine it sure beats the the old tugging and pulling on that handle of a BOSS. Don't get me wrong I started with a BOSS and it was fine, but sometimes you had to be the incredable hulk to sew all the projects you had.

Good luck with you choice on a machine but I can highly recommend a COBRA if you want to choose a mechanical machine.

Swordsman

I have only been leatherworking for 2 months now but I have found that I really enjoy it and am considering taking this hobby to the next level by buying an intro level sewing machine. I mainly enjoy the creative process of creating my own patterns and tweaking holster designs of my own creation. Although I feel I have become decent at hand sewing, it is kind of a drag & is by far the most time consuming build element for a hand sewer.

As far as I can tell there really are only 4 main choices for a novice holster builder like myself who is looking for the most reasonably priced sewing machine. A machine by Cowboy Sew might fit into the "intro level" category, but they do not post prices on their site and I have yet to call them.

Right now the Techsew GA5-1R looks the most attractive to me. It only can sew up to 7/16" thickness (about 4 layers of 7 oz leather), but am I correct in thinking that will be enough for someone who will build only holsters?

If the Boss was available for under a thousand dollars it would make it a 'no brainer' choice for me, but is the ability to sew up to 3/4" really worth the extra cost? Particularly since it is a manually operated machine?

If cost was no option a TORO 3000 or a Cobra Class 3 would obviously be the way to go. But in the real world where price matters, I am forced to ask -

• Is the abiility to sew 3/4" or thicker leather worth the extra cost for a holster maker?

and, if not...

• Does the quality of the Artisan or TORO machine justify the additional cost over the Techsew?

I appreciate any thoughts on this stuff, particularly from experienced folks who have owned one or more of these machines.

Thanks,

Lance

[colttrainer]

Lance

I fully agree with Art. Buy a 441 clone first. I just invested in one, & since then I have seen loads of machines in the class you are looking at come up for sale. Best decission I made in along, time as I can see that I would have been very disappointed with less machine & still having to resort back to hand stitching way to often.

Al

[Denster]

Looks like I am way outvoted. I guess it depends on whether you are certain you are going to stick with this hobby and possibly carry it into a business. The safe bet if you are not sure is a Boss. Neither of mine are the cast iron versions. You can always get your money back or profit if you decide it really isn't for you. If you are certain that this is going to be long term then cobra class 4 is the way to go. In business time is money and for belts and other long stitch runs power is the way to go which is why I have the aerostitch. If I didn't allready have it I'd have a class4 Cobra.

[olliesrevenge]

Thanks a bunch to all who took time to share their thoughts here. I really appreciate it.

If I knew for sure that I wanted to go into the leather holster making business, it seems like the no-brainer choice would be a Cobra machine. Where I'm at is at the level of serious hobbyist who is interested in making professional quality holsters for myself and a few good friends, although I have entertained the idea of going into business at some future date when my skill as a leather craftsman improves.

Interestingly, you guys have convinced me to narrow my choice to either the least or most expensive option - Either the Boss or a Cobra 3 or 4 machine. In order to make that choice I need to do some thinking and more clearly define what I want to be when it comes to leather holster crafting. If I decide to be a "serious hobbyist" the Boss makes sense. If I decide to get serious about running a small leather business the Cobra Class 3 or 4 makes sense.

Choices like this just can never be easy can they?

I am interested in hearing more about why I should buy a Cobra 4 over a Cobra 3, if anyone cares to elaborate on it. As far as I can tell the only difference is "throat depth" (the distance from the needle to the main part of the machine, right?), and for one who would be building only holsters the Cobra 3 seems like it would do fine(?). In my understanding the recommendation to go w/ a Cobra 4 is based upon the notion that I would be setting myself up for success if I decide to manufacture larger items (like say handbags) in the future, right?

I'm sure Steve at Leather Machines can explain the pro's and con's to me as well, and I do intend to call him.

Thank you all,

Lance

[colttrainer]

Easier re-sale.

[Luke Hatley]

Go with the Cobra 4 ...."its better to have it and not need it

than need it and not have it"

the word will get out on you that you can do heavy duty sewing and this is where

the longer arm will come in handy.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Howdy Lance

I own and run a holster making shop, I will kind of lay out why there is only one real choice when it comes to a machine for holsters.

First of all I own a Cobra and it's a real beauty but before I go there lets talk thickness, if you can only sew 7/16 then you have issues first being that it will be hard on your machine and you will if taking this for real you will do holsters with plugs that will exceed your ability to sew and that will burn big time.

Second you cant just take price there are so many other things to think of, I have never ever dealt with any one close to the level of service steve provides he is their night or day to help you out, and if I read right this is your first machine big deal, you want get that help from any other company guaranteed.

Third you will receive all the attachment need in that price!

I have had a couple bad experiences with artisan and have heard many others just my two cents there.

and lastly you will never have to worry about your machine its covered.

do your self a favor call Steve then call the others.

hope this helps.

Josh

I will second your comments. I bought Steve's first machine shipped and I have not regretted it yet. I just bought a used boss for a steal for a show machine but I am very glad I went with an automatic machine and especially the Cobra.

[dbusarow]

I'm in the same spot as the original poster and even picked mostly the same machines, GA5, Artisan 3000 or Cobra 3. I was leaning toward the Cobra.

Now with everyone saying go Cobra 4 I'm wondering if maybe the Artisan 4000 might be better. ??

A 4000 is close to the price of the Cobra 3 but gives the extra throat depth.

When I first got into leather a little over 18 months ago an Artisan 3000 or 4000 was the holy grail for a small shop. Has Artisan support fallen so badly (since Steve left to start Cobra) that they aren't in the game anymore?

Just curious, and ready to save a few hundred dollars if I can

Thanks,

Dan

[dbusarow]

When I first got into leather a little over 18 months ago an Artisan 3000 or 4000 was the holy grail for a small shop. Has Artisan support fallen so badly (since Steve left to start Cobra) that they aren't in the game anymore?

As I re-read this post in the morning it looks like I'm trolling for a sewing machine war here. I'm not. Really.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a good reason that I should NOT go with a TORO 4000 over a Cobra 3. I would guess that Artisan is better able to sustain a price war against Cobra, and while I feel some sympathy for Steve I need to get the best deal for myself that I can.

Thanks,

Dan

[Art]

I think what you might take more consideration of is that Artisan may be less able to sustain the price war than Cobra. They are both burning cash to sustain this war and one is going to run out before the other. Who is burning cash faster? The one with the lower prices. Why not take advantage of the super low price? If your guy loses, you can't expect the other guy to treat you as a valued customer, he's going to sell you the replacement part, but it won't be on lifetime warranty, in fact, I would expect to get soaked for it and not get a bit of help making the repair. Remember, he has his LOYAL customers to take care of.

Don't chase price, look for something that will be serviceable for years with friendly, affordable, and available service for the life of the product.

The desired thing is for both of these companies to survive. However, I think there is just too much bad blood for that to happen.

Anyone notice the Artisan ads at the top of the Leatherworker.net pages?

Art

As I re-read this post in the morning it looks like I'm trolling for a sewing machine war here. I'm not. Really.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a good reason that I should NOT go with a TORO 4000 over a Cobra 3. I would guess that Artisan is better able to sustain a price war against Cobra, and while I feel some sympathy for Steve I need to get the best deal for myself that I can.

Thanks,

Dan

[longtooth]

I sew a lot working equipment for horse trainers and cowboy action shooters. I purchased a Juki 2000 pro with all the attachments from Fredco. I have owned the machine for about 7 years now and it has given me all I could expect and then some. The price was up in outer space but when I look at the service it has given me and it's reliability. I feel it was worth the investment.

[troop]

i would go with the Cobra. i love mine, and Steve's customer service really is the best. i have heard some horror stories about Artisan, even though i have never delt with them myself.

[dbusarow]

The desired thing is for both of these companies to survive. However, I think there is just too much bad blood for that to happen.

Anyone notice the Artisan ads at the top of the Leatherworker.net pages?

Thanks Art. That's what I was looking for. Cobra it is.

Now I just need to decide between the 3 and the 4

Dan

[NMCOWBOY]

Thought I would weight in on this discussion about Sewing Machines. I have been looking to by a sewing machine for about the last 9 months. Doing research and saving my money I have looked at and talked to people about the "Boss, the Cobra, and the Toro as well as a few others. I attended the leather show in Wickenburg AZ last month, (had a great time by the way). While I was there I was able to talk to Steve at the Cobra booth about the Cobra class 4 and Larry about Artisan Toro 4000. For me the longer arm is the way to go. It allows me to go in different directions with my leather making without having to upgrade my machine at a later date. Given all the information I obtained I bought a Cobra Class 4 with the EPS motor. EPS stands for Electronic Positioning System this allows you to stop the needle in the UP position or in the DOWN position. None of the other sewing machines have this feature. Olliesrevenge you say in your post that you make holsters, as soon as folks find out you do leather work you are going to be asked to do all kinds of projects. And you may as well have a machine that will allow you to do the work you ask of it. Do yourself a favor and buy the machine that will allow you to do most with it from the start.

[jbird]

The plain fact is this if you want the best machine at the best price with the best service its A homer Simpson no brainer.

Cobra!

Josh

[MattW]

We (John Bianchi and I) just finished our Holster and Gunbelt workshop in Wickenburg last month. We asked Steve if he would let us use 2 of his machines during the class. We used a Class 3 and a Class 4. Both with the needle positioner. They both performed flawlessly.

If you are at all serious about making professional looking goods a quality machine is the only way to go. If you start with a Boss, you will outgrow it soon and have a hard time getting your money back out of it.

The finest stitchers in the world are now less expensive than they have ever been. The return on investment is incredibly good right now.

If I were in the market for another machine now, the Cobra 4 with the needle positioner would be the way I'd go. The extra arm length is super handy when stitching on cartridge loops for western belts.

[Denster]

MatW said:If you are at all serious about making professional looking goods a quality machine is the only way to go. If you start with a Boss, you will outgrow it soon and have a hard time getting your money back out of it.

Now here I will have to disagree: You may start with a Boss and go to a powered machine but you will likely keep the Boss just because there are some things that are easier and quicker to do on it. I can't imagine not having one in the shop. If you bought it lightly used for between $800 and $1000 and you decide to get rid of it put it on eBay or advertise it here and it will sell and you will get your money back if not a profit.

I doubt you can do that with a Cobra. Which is nothing against Cobra they are excellent machines and you won't hear anything bad about Steve from the people he has sold machines to. Recall that the original poster is in the beginning hobby stage and is not certain that this will be a long term thing or that it will develop into a business.

As to quality work the Boss will sew every bit as nice a stitch as any other machine short of a needle/awl. Don't believe it look at some of Particle's work in other posts.

[jbird]

Well I am sure you can do great work with a awl and needle and two good hands as well , so think about it like this Matt and John are the best John built the moderen holster biz, so for me his word roots deep. The boss I am sure is a great machine but think pulling a handle with each stitch and maybe that's ok.

Josh

[Denster]

Well I am sure you can do great work with a awl and needle and two good hands as well , so think about it like this Matt and John are the best John built the moderen holster biz, so for me his word roots deep. The boss I am sure is a great machine but think pulling a handle with each stitch and maybe that's ok.

Josh

Actually what I was refering to was a needle and awl machine like the union lockstitch where the back looks every bit as nice as the front.

I meant nothing disparaging towards John or Matt. For the work John currently does making lined western holsters and gunbelts a machine like the cobra is an absolute if you want to make any money at it. Can you do it on a Boss? Yes but it can be a P.I.T.A. particularly bullet loops.

I get back to what the OP inquired about, which is making holsters as a hobby which he may or may not find satisfying in the long run. Lets say he buys a Cobra 3 I believe $2395 plus $300 to $500 as a guess for shipping and decides a year from now this isn't for me. A used Cobra might bring $1800 if you are willing to paletize it for shipping. If not you are confined to a local market which might not be favorable. A Boss however, purchased lightly used will be around $1000 if you decide to sell it you can advertise it here or put it on ebay and get back all of your money or a profit. You can ship it anywhere in the ConUS for $30 or less.

That was the point I have been trying to make. Most seem to be aproaching it from the idea that going into business and making a variety of items is a given. In that case of course the Cobra would be the logical choice probably the class 4 with EP.