Maybe I Am Gong About This Wrong

[TrustCommunicationConsent]

What older machines are 1. walking foot and 2. able to sew leather up to1/4".

Mkaes and models would be great so I know what I am looking for.

[Wizcrafts]

What older machines are 1. walking foot and 2. able to sew leather up to1/4".

Mkaes and models would be great so I know what I am looking for.

Singer 111W155, Juki LU-562 and LU-563, older Consew 206 models, National 306N, plus various industrial models from Adler, Artisan, Chandler, Pfaff, Seiko and Mitsubishi all are available in walking foot series and will sew 1/4" and have been around for at least 15 years or longer. Generally speaking, the older the machine, the more likely it needs parts and adjustments to sew properly and efficiently. Most of these machines are manually oiled, leaving it up to the operators to maintain them properly. An old machine stored in an outdoor locker or garage will develop rust and lose its oil, making it likely to seize up if run without first lubricating all moving parts and applying anti-seize to rusted parts.

That said, try to find a seller who is still using the machine they are offering to you. Go and watch it sew. Listen for sounds of clunking or grinding. Spin the flywheel to see if it rotates freely, without binding part way through its cycle. Test the motor and clutch. Many old machines are sold with a shot clutch, or one that is sadly out of adjustment.

Test the knee lever to ensure that it raises and lowers the pressor foot without binding. Look at the pressor foot bar and needle bar and make sure they travel in a perfectly straight line, without sideways motion. Make sure those bars are not binding as they move. Look at the thread hole in the takeup lever and see if it has worn almost through from tight thread. Remove the bobbin cover plate and make sure the bobbin case, or shuttle is not chipped or rusted and that it turns or oscillates freely. Watch the top thread as it is picked up by the shuttle point and pulled around the bobbin. It should not get hung up as it feeds around the bobbin and housing. Inspect the feed dogs for wear and chipped teeth. Make sure the thread tension parts are not rusted and allow the thread to be pulled smoothly, but with sufficient tension to make a stitch. You should be able to adjust the top tension from virtually zero, to very tight. Many old machines have worn thread tension parts. Also, make sure that the thread tension disks release tension when you raise the pressor feet with the knee lever. or the hand lifter lever.

If the machine meets all of these tests it may well be worth a couple of hundred bucks. If not, it may cost you as much as you paid for it in replacement parts. Motors alone go for over a hundred dollars, for 1/2 hp clutch motors, and more for servo motors. If you buy a machine that was setup to sew drapes, or cloth garments, it may have a 1/4 hp 1725 rpm motor, which will prove too weak for heavy leather 1/4" thick. If the clutch is shot you won't be able to feather it for slow sewing.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Wizcrafts

[JLSleather]

I got an issue with this 16-188 too (I THINK it's just BEFORE the 111). Killed a day picking it up, another day messing with the tension, another day ordering parts, one more day having it checked out. It works, but I can't seem to keep the tension adjusted.

At this point, the time I lost is worth more to me than the money I have in it. With four days, I could have profited more at the upcoming leather sale than this cost me. Ordered several sewing awls, figured I'd get some done by hand while waiting on the machine. Wouldn't you know it, every one of them dull. What happened to the "old days", when new meant working?

I spent $100 and got some dull metal. I spent several $100 and got a machine that sews OK if you have the patience (and a good bit of the same leather you're using) to set it up repeatedly. All of this has me pretty much gunshy about buying a machine. But, I NEED to have things sewn, so I'm not really sure where to go from here. In the process of calling around to get this machine serviced, I got alot of "we don't do that any more", so I assume it would be the same with the new machine.

[TrustCommunicationConsent]

Many Thanks Wiz, that is by far the most informitave post I have seen so far. It seems I was asking the wrong questions. Again thank you very much for the help.

Singer 111W155, Juki LU-562 and LU-563, older Consew 206 models, National 306N, plus various industrial models from Adler, Artisan, Chandler, Pfaff, Seiko and Mitsubishi all are available in walking foot series and will sew 1/4" and have been around for at least 15 years or longer. Generally speaking, the older the machine, the more likely it needs parts and adjustments to sew properly and efficiently. Most of these machines are manually oiled, leaving it up to the operators to maintain them properly. An old machine stored in an outdoor locker or garage will develop rust and lose its oil, making it likely to seize up if run without first lubricating all moving parts and applying anti-seize to rusted parts.

That said, try to find a seller who is still using the machine they are offering to you. Go and watch it sew. Listen for sounds of clunking or grinding. Spin the flywheel to see if it rotates freely, without binding part way through its cycle. Test the motor and clutch. Many old machines are sold with a shot clutch, or one that is sadly out of adjustment.

Test the knee lever to ensure that it raises and lowers the pressor foot without binding. Look at the pressor foot bar and needle bar and make sure they travel in a perfectly straight line, without sideways motion. Make sure those bars are not binding as they move. Look at the thread hole in the takeup lever and see if it has worn almost through from tight thread. Remove the bobbin cover plate and make sure the bobbin case, or shuttle is not chipped or rusted and that it turns or oscillates freely. Watch the top thread as it is picked up by the shuttle point and pulled around the bobbin. It should not get hung up as it feeds around the bobbin and housing. Inspect the feed dogs for wear and chipped teeth. Make sure the thread tension parts are not rusted and allow the thread to be pulled smoothly, but with sufficient tension to make a stitch. You should be able to adjust the top tension from virtually zero, to very tight. Many old machines have worn thread tension parts. Also, make sure that the thread tension disks release tension when you raise the pressor feet with the knee lever. or the hand lifter lever.

If the machine meets all of these tests it may well be worth a couple of hundred bucks. If not, it may cost you as much as you paid for it in replacement parts. Motors alone go for over a hundred dollars, for 1/2 hp clutch motors, and more for servo motors. If you buy a machine that was setup to sew drapes, or cloth garments, it may have a 1/4 hp 1725 rpm motor, which will prove too weak for heavy leather 1/4" thick. If the clutch is shot you won't be able to feather it for slow sewing.

[CowboyBob]

JLS,

The 16-188 should sew close to 3/8" w/o any problems.What is the machine doing?

Bob

[JLSleather]

Doesn't like to pull the lock stitch into the center. Bottom thread not pulled up far enough. NEW tension assembly didn't really make any difference. New bobbins and bobbin cases ... same thing. Thread size doesn't seem to matter. I'm using it, but the thing is so moody that I have to "organize" a bit much ... as in sew ALL of that type of leather I need sewed in the near future before changing to something else. Just too much trouble to put it back again.

Here's the irritating part... really no money in this thing but I certainly wouldn't trust it to sew a project I have hours of carving/painting in. Then, I've never really minded hand sewing, but after ordering three different awls from three different places - all of which were useless until you regrind them ("sharpen" doesn't cover it) - it just added to the aggravation. I ordered leather from "40 years experience" and got a hide that I wouldn't use for a drop cloth. These and other "new" items were just waste-of-my-time irritations, but I'm unlikely to be so forgiving if I spent $2k on a new machine and got the same "service". A "guarantee" that I can return it is useless to me - just means I killed time twice.

So, I'm done letting it stress me out. I could have spent the wasted time making other projects for the upcoming show and easily made more than I invested in this thing. Pro'lly just throw it in somewhere out of the way in case I ever need parts - or a place to clean some fish. Please don't invest your time in diagnosing the machine - I'm done with it. I'd sell it for what I have in it, but honestly can't be bothered to ship it. All this other stuff was just wondering out loud if anybody else is seeing the same things.