Reconstructing 17Th Century Sword Scabbards

[UKRay]

Many thanks for the address, Tina - I've been in touch with them.

Ray, I've cuir buoillied lots of leather for my helmets, and it's extremely difficult to do that on anything thinner than 8 oz.

Doug

I had the same experiences as you with the cuir bouille, Doug. The scabbards have to be made from max. 2mm leather or they become too heavy, feel 'cloddish' and the original fittings don't fit. I have also tried forming wet leather round the blade and drying it with a hair-dryer (hardly a medieval / 17th - 18th century technique) but the quality of the leather was so good it hardly noticed and although it did stiffen slightly, it stayed flexible.

I don't feel much like heating an historic blade to use it as a former- most of the swords I work with are inlaid with gold leaf and / or have an amazing patina that I couldn't possibly risk damaging. I agree it could work but the risk of damage is too great. I'm fairly confident this wasn't the original technique too.

Oven baking is also an option on smaller pieces of leather but I don't have an oven big enough to 'cook' a 3ft tube of leather. I'm going to experiment with a wood fired clay oven made specially for this purpose later in the year and will keep you informed.

Hot wax - yup, once again, my experiences match yours and I also feel that hot weather leads to scabbard droop... not a 'good look'.

I just tried some through-dyed veg tan that was so hard to start with I had trouble getting it to form a tube and resorted to a cobbler's hammer to get it flat. After fighting the stuff to get the tunnel stitches in place the stuff became so soft that the wretched stitches pulled through... Now that really upset me!

I think the half-tanned route may well be the way to go. It makes sense to use a leather that is already stiffened with a layer of rawhide. It ought to mould well and hopefully will be strong enough to keep its form over the entire length of the blade. I'm slightly concerned about how well the stitches will hold but the Skandi knife sheaths I have seen look tough enough so I'm probably worrying unnecessarily.

Ray

[UKRay]

Modern veg tan leather is I believe drum tanned which continually flexes the skin giving a softer finished product, (a much quicker process). I think I might try soaking an oversized piece of leather in water with tanning solution such as s shredded oak bark for a couple of months and hopefully when dried it will make a stiffer leather I would then work warmed or even melted beeswax into the leather (use friction, a hairdryer or hot air gun to get it deep into the structure from both sides) I think you will find this gives a much stiffer leather to shape it you may need to use a heated iron with the leather on a former the shape of the scabard

I completely agree that the modern drum tanning process does produce a softer leather, Mike, but I am using pit tanned (oak bark) leather from Collyton in Devon which is about as authentic as it gets - and I still can't crack the problem. Beeswax (even well soaked beeswax) almost works as long as the scabbard is kept cool although it is still very flexible but put it in the sun and it goes floppy again. I'm actually looking for a hard, rigid structure, not a flexible one.

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'former the shape of the scabbard' as I'm reasonably confident the originals weren't made with a former. Can you explain a little more please?

Ray

[Spinner]

I'm slightly concerned about how well the stitches will hold but the Skandi knife sheaths I have seen look tough enough so I'm probably worrying unnecessarily.

That's one of the things I've been impressed with in reading about them. Some of the forums I have read talk about the well made sheaths retaining their "pop" for tens of years. (A true Scandi sheath actually makes a small pop sound when the knife is drawn due to being formed around the knife it's meant for and the design of the knife/sheath combo). The thing that is impressive is that their stitching isn't set as far back in the leather as a pouch sheath and they still remain that tight after regular use. If you haven't read this article yet, http://www.mamut.net/gjknives/subdet1.htm it's a good way to see the differences in Scandi vs. pouch sheath construction.

[jimsaddler]

That's one of the things I've been impressed with in reading about them. Some of the forums I have read talk about the well made sheaths retaining their "pop" for tens of years. (A true Scandi sheath actually makes a small pop sound when the knife is drawn due to being formed around the knife it's meant for and the design of the knife/sheath combo). The thing that is impressive is that their stitching isn't set as far back in the leather as a pouch sheath and they still remain that tight after regular use. If you haven't read this article yet, http://www.mamut.net...ves/subdet1.htm it's a good way to see the differences in Scandi vs. pouch sheath construction.

Hi Guys

The Leather you are after is Ladies light Stick on Sole. I haven't used it for years now but did quite a few Scabbards 30 to 40 years ago. I know that every Shoe Repairer used it. It was reasonably easy to soak, Mellow, Hammer to Shape, sew, Dry, Polish, then coat with Lacquer (thin to start for penetration, getting thicker ) like French Polishing. The Lacquer was made from a type of Resin that dried Hard and waterproof. I got the directions from an old Curator at the Australian Museum in Sydney. He had Books on the process from the 1.700's. Probably the Museum still has the Books.

This Leather was not Staked and by using 2.8mm substance and Hammering and Boning it reduced to a fraction over 2mm when finished and very firm.

The Rawhide Core Leather doesn't work very easily and is hard to sew effectively.

I hope this helps. Italy still make such a Leather.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[MBOGO]

I would like to follow this, as I have always wondered how this was done.

[MikeCahill]

I completely agree that the modern drum tanning process does produce a softer leather, Mike, but I am using pit tanned (oak bark) leather from Collyton in Devon which is about as authentic as it gets - and I still can't crack the problem. Beeswax (even well soaked beeswax) almost works as long as the scabbard is kept cool although it is still very flexible but put it in the sun and it goes floppy again. I'm actually looking for a hard, rigid structure, not a flexible one.

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'former the shape of the scabbard' as I'm reasonably confident the originals weren't made with a former. Can you explain a little more please?

Ray

of course I meant to say "former the shape of the sword!!" perhaps the sword its self well covered with clingfilm to protect it and then a couple of layers of gaffa tape to give a clearance fit

Mike

[amuckart]

Hi Ray,

We had some discussion on this subject a while back but I'm no nearer being able to recreate the 'hard' leather of a 17th century sword scabbard than I was before. I wonder if anyone has any ideas on this.

Let me explain: I regularly have to re-make old sword scabbards for museums and collectors and although I can make a perfectly adequate 'display piece' replica from modern leather I am still not absolutely certain what sort of leather they were made from originally. An educated guess suggests 1.5 to 2mm thick veg tan / oak bark tan of some kind but was this a special tannage? Anyone got any thoughts on where authentic material might be obtained or where I might find anyone who may be doing the same job as me now?

Next question: I'm at a loss to decide how to treat my leather to get the same level of rigidity the 'old guys' achieved. I have tried many types of leather and haven't found a solution to what I call 'scabbard droop' - any ideas?

My first reaction is that if you're doing this work for museums then surely they have some extant examples for you to look at, or at least photographs of them? If the ones you're working for don't, get in touch with the Royal Armouries at Leeds. If anyone in Britain has some, they will. You could also look over at www.myarmoury.com and see if there's anything in the forum archives there, but it's a big forum so you have to be pretty good with the search.

There are a couple of ways I think this could go. Jacked leather, or leather-over-wood. Earlier swords were generally found in wooden-cored scabbards that were covered with fabric then thin leather (or fancy fabric, or whatever). They got their stiffness from the wood, the leather was just there to hold everything together.

Purely speculating, but if you're dealing with documented leather-only scabbards then I'd guess they were made grain-in and jacked on the outside with a mix of rosin a touch of wax or oil and lampblack. Singe off any hairy bits of the flesh side and daub the mix in hot so it soaks in. Do that for several coatings and then burnish the hell out of it and you'll get a great smooth surface and it'll harden up the leather nicely. There are descriptions of jack boots and helmets made like this from the 18th century that are described as being as hard as wood.

Look here: http://www.personal....leather/hl.html under the heading "LATE ADDITIONS" near the bottom. That's all 18th-19th century, but it's perhaps a start. Really though, the folk at Leeds are probably your best bet.

HTH

[UKRay]

Hi Al,

As you suggest, I have access to plenty of examples of original scabbards, but my question was about the tannage of the original leather and the treatment it was given to make it hard.

The scabbards I am working on are simply tunnel stitched tubes of leather with metal fittings. They don't pose any real constructional challenges and do not appear to be made over a former other than the sword itself. Mine look virtually identical to the originals - I simply need to harden the leather so it keeps its shape when the sword is removed.

"I'd guess they were made grain-in and jacked on the outside with a mix of rosin a touch of wax or oil and lampblack. Singe off any hairy bits of the flesh side and daub the mix in hot so it soaks in. Do that for several coatings and then burnish the hell out of it and you'll get a great smooth surface and it'll harden up the leather nicely. There are descriptions of jack boots and helmets made like this from the 18th century that are described as being as hard as wood."

Your suggested course of action sounds like it may work, Al, and I will give it a try later this week as I have another sword on the bench waiting for a new scabbard. Could you please explain your use of the word 'jacked'? Is this the same process as 'bulling' military boots?

Cheers,

Ray

[amuckart]

Hi Ray,

As you suggest, I have access to plenty of examples of original scabbards, but my question was about the tannage of the original leather and the treatment it was given to make it hard.

Is there enough of the surface left to figure out whether they were originally made grain-in or grain-out? I'm curious now. If they're grain-in then I'd put money on them being jacked. If they're grain out it's still a possibility, but I wouldn't put so much money on it.

Your suggested course of action sounds like it may work, Al, and I will give it a try later this week as I have another sword on the bench waiting for a new scabbard. Could you please explain your use of the word 'jacked'? Is this the same process as 'bulling' military boots?

Heh, I've just read the thread on spit-polishing and the descriptions of bulling boots in there. When I first read this question I didn't understand what the phrase meant

It's not the same, no. I can't remember where I originally got the term 'jacking' from, possibly Baker's Black Jacks and Leather Bottels, possibly Garsault (quoted below), possibly elsewhere but I understand it as a process of impregnating leather with hard, black, resin/wax mixtures to render it hard and water resistant.

It's worth noting that while this process involves heat, the process as I understand (and practice) it relies on the resins impregnating the leather to impart the stiffness not a wet heating as in cour bouille. As far as I can tell the waxes are added to cut the brittleness of the rosin and help carry the mixture into the leather. It's really an impregnation process, not just a surface conditioning. It has the advantage of being restoreable too. If the finish cracks or the scabbard gets bent some heat and more jacking should fix it. Even applied to the flesh surface of leather it's possible to get a very high finish.

The URL I posted in my original reply has pretty good descriptions of the process, one of which I'll paste in below:

"Having one pair of boots... over their boot trees and previously wet, but now dry, take a coarse wood rasp, which is rubbed over the whole boot-leg to remove the fluff which stands up on the flesh; after this you proceed with the jacking/waxing... The place for jacking/waxing must be a room with a chimney, paved or tiled [NB-- "...where there is no fear of fire" in one edition]; near the top of the chimney, outside, is attached an iron chain which dangles to within six inches of the floor or there-abouts. You ready yourself for jacking/waxing by putting a small portable stove or lit brazier on a table to your left, on which you place a kettle containing the following recipe: One pound of yellow wax, two pounds of colophony, which is pine rosin, and lampblack to suit. You also furnish yourself with a swab, this is the name of a large dauber formed from a bundle of linen rags bound together, and have on your right, on the ground, some loose straw... Begin your task by lighting a little straw, which you wave under the bootleg to singe it, in other words to burn the rest of the fluff from the leaher that the rasp did not remove; afterward dip the swab in the BOILING [NB -- emphasis added] jacking/wax with which you coat the entire bootleg. Then continually rotate the boot-tree with your hands over a steady straw fire so that the heat makes the jacking/wax penetrate. You put on six sucessive coats in the space of an hour, being very careful to occasionally moisten the bootleg so it will not scorch, and so it takes two hours time to jack/wax one pair of boots. The bootleg now jacked/waxed, leave it to cool... When the bootleg has been jacked/waxed, and once more is thouroughly cold, it is full of lumps caused by the boiling jacking/wax with which it was coated and saturated; to remove them take an old knife, and using the blade as a scraper, scrape off all these lumps, then rub with a piece of cold wax that you spread very evenly with a stiff brush or burnishing stick, etc., and you finish-off by polishing and shining with the palm of your hand". -- M. de Garsault, 'l'Art du Cordonnier' [Paris, 1767]

Now this is a full century later than you're after, but I think what we're reading there is a plausible explanation for the preparation of 'Black Jacks' and other hardened black, waxed leather goods that go back well before the 17th Century and is at least a reasonable starting point for a plausibly accurate technique to treat your scabbard leather.

I'd love to see pictures of some of the ones you've made.

As an aside, since I've quoted from it here, Al Saguto of the Colonial Williamsburg foundation released his translation and interpretation of Garsault's work this year. It is a pretty deep read but is utterly invaluable for anyone with an interest in historic footwear and leatherwork and I recommend it highly. It's not a stretch to say Al is the worlds foremost living expert on this period of shoemaking and the book reflects that deep knowledge.

Edited July 14, 2010 by UKRay

[MikeCahill]

Hi Ray,

Is there enough of the surface left to figure out whether they were originally made grain-in or grain-out? I'm curious now. If they're grain-in then I'd put money on them being jacked. If they're grain out it's still a possibility, but I wouldn't put so much money on it.

Heh, I've just read the thread on spit-polishing and the descriptions of bulling boots in there. When I first read this question I didn't understand what the phrase meant

It's not the same, no. I can't remember where I originally got the term 'jacking' from, possibly Baker's Black Jacks and Leather Bottels, possibly Garsault (quoted below), possibly elsewhere but I understand it as a process of impregnating leather with hard, black, resin/wax mixtures to render it hard and water resistant.

It's worth noting that while this process involves heat, the process as I understand (and practice) it relies on the resins impregnating the leather to impart the stiffness not a wet heating as in cour bouille. As far as I can tell the waxes are added to cut the brittleness of the rosin and help carry the mixture into the leather. It's really an impregnation process, not just a surface conditioning. It has the advantage of being restoreable too. If the finish cracks or the scabbard gets bent some heat and more jacking should fix it. Even applied to the flesh surface of leather it's possible to get a very high finish.

The URL I posted in my original reply has pretty good descriptions of the process, one of which I'll paste in below:

"Having one pair of boots... over their boot trees and previously wet, but now dry, take a coarse wood rasp, which is rubbed over the whole boot-leg to remove the fluff which stands up on the flesh; after this you proceed with the jacking/waxing... The place for jacking/waxing must be a room with a chimney, paved or tiled [NB-- "...where there is no fear of fire" in one edition]; near the top of the chimney, outside, is attached an iron chain which dangles to within six inches of the floor or there-abouts. You ready yourself for jacking/waxing by putting a small portable stove or lit brazier on a table to your left, on which you place a kettle containing the following recipe: One pound of yellow wax, two pounds of colophony, which is pine rosin, and lampblack to suit. You also furnish yourself with a swab, this is the name of a large dauber formed from a bundle of linen rags bound together, and have on your right, on the ground, some loose straw... Begin your task by lighting a little straw, which you wave under the bootleg to singe it, in other words to burn the rest of the fluff from the leaher that the rasp did not remove; afterward dip the swab in the BOILING [NB -- emphasis added] jacking/wax with which you coat the entire bootleg. Then continually rotate the boot-tree with your hands over a steady straw fire so that the heat makes the jacking/wax penetrate. You put on six sucessive coats in the space of an hour, being very careful to occasionally moisten the bootleg so it will not scorch, and so it takes two hours time to jack/wax one pair of boots. The bootleg now jacked/waxed, leave it to cool... When the bootleg has been jacked/waxed, and once more is thouroughly cold, it is full of lumps caused by the boiling jacking/wax with which it was coated and saturated; to remove them take an old knife, and using the blade as a scraper, scrape off all these lumps, then rub with a piece of cold wax that you spread very evenly with a stiff brush or burnishing stick, etc., and you finish-off by polishing and shining with the palm of your hand". -- M. de Garsault, 'l'Art du Cordonnier' [Paris, 1767]

Now this is a full century later than you're after, but I think what we're reading there is a plausible explanation for the preparation of 'Black Jacks' and other hardened black, waxed leather goods that go back well before the 17th Century and is at least a reasonable starting point for a plausibly accurate technique to treat your scabbard leather.

I'd love to see pictures of some of the ones you've made.

As an aside, since I've quoted from it here, Al Saguto of the Colonial Williamsburg foundation released his translation and interpretation of Garsault's work this year. It is a pretty deep read but is utterly invaluable for anyone with an interest in historic footwear and leatherwork and I recommend it highly. It's not a stretch to say Al is the worlds foremost living expert on this period of shoemaking and the book reflects that deep knowledge.

If you add pure turpintine to that recipe you have what I would call Cobblers heel Ball which was used for burnishing heels and soles, (and by small boys making brass rubbings of gravestones). the turpintine makes it more flexable, and tacky for easier application the turpintine evaporates off during the burnishing process leaving a high gloss finish. It would work but I would worry about the sword getting "glued" into the scabbard if it was exposed to a a hot sun, perhaps "dusting" the inside with fine sand would help

Cheers

Mike