Picking Out A First Sewing Machine

[Wizcrafts]

Well Wiz,

If it is such a great idea, why not do it. Lets see you come up with and support a Sailrite clone with monster wheel, 1.5 amp motor, smooth feet, heavier springs, and everything you want for under $500 (your own words). Sounds good, I'll take the first one, or honest to ghod, I'd probably buy the same thing from Sailrite for $649,

http://www.allbrands...03447-0758.html

Art

Art;

First of all, the $649 price at AB is for the basic setup version of the machine.

Does not include Metal Monster Wheel, Kick Stand to stabilize case bottom, 1" Binder Swing Type, and Light included in SR-Loaded Accessory Pack for over $200 More.

Now you are looking at an $849.00 machine.

Anyway, a few of our dealers already carry a portable machine that can be beefed up upon request. They are being sold to all kinds of users, from inmates to upholsters, to carpet installers. My idea was to have a complete custom package available for modifying these machines into a leather capable stitcher, within their limitations. You and I don't need such a machine since we are already equipped with serious equipment. But, a newbie to sewing leather projects, with a limited budget, would benefit from this type of machine, as a first leather capable sewing machine. Once the person outgrows it he or she will probably move up to a cylinder arm compound feed heavy stitcher.

Are we done arguing now?

[Art]

Well no,

You are asking dealers to get new castings made and develop a new machine, that may be going a little far. Taking a 126 and hanging a few extra parts on it is a little more reasonable.

Artisan tried, it didn't go anywhere, now you want someone else to join this? Like I said, go ahead, put YOUR MONEY in it and then talk, the leather community may support you....or not.

The only reason to do something like this is the expectation of reward. Is altruism enough of a reward for this? Not when it has to feed your family.

Someone can probably make your dream machine for "less than $500", will he sell enough to make it worthwhile? Who knows. That's why I encourage you to undertake or back this venture.

You are the one telling everyone what they should do, so show us.

Art

Are we done arguing now?

[Wizcrafts]

Well no,

You are asking dealers to get new castings made and develop a new machine, that may be going a little far. Taking a 126 and hanging a few extra parts on it is a little more reasonable.

Artisan tried, it didn't go anywhere, now you want someone else to join this? Like I said, go ahead, put YOUR MONEY in it and then talk, the leather community may support you....or not.

The only reason to do something like this is the expectation of reward. Is altruism enough of a reward for this? Not when it has to feed your family.

Someone can probably make your dream machine for "less than $500", will he sell enough to make it worthwhile? Who knows. That's why I encourage you to undertake or back this venture.

You are the one telling everyone what they should do, so show us.

Art

What dream machine? I was talking about a portable WF machine that can sew up to 3/8" of leather without bogging down or breaking parts. The $500 price was off the top of my head, not etched in stone. I am not interested in becoming a sewing machine builder or importer, nor do I have any money to invest in such a venture.

Had I known that my making a suggestion for an intermediate level machine for new sewers was going to trigger such a backlash, I never would have posted it. I didn't think I was telling anyone what to do. A simple "it's not cost effective" would have sufficed, but you are making this into a big deal.

I have no wish to continue this argument with you Art. I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

[DougVL]

I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

Wiz -

Don't be sorry!

You have just the right idea! And it didn't sound to ME like you proposed a whole new machine with new castings. Just modify the Sailrite-type mini-walker. Excellent idea!

Several years ago I bought a Singer 20U33 new from an importer/dealer in California. They modified it by mounting a home-machine motor on it to make it portable, and put it in a carrying case. It was pretty nice, but ran a bit fast. I happened to find some old parts in my junk box, though. An old, broken bread machine provided a large, toothed-belt pulley and belt and I also somehow happened to have a small toothed pulley that fit the machine motor. I drilled holes in the pulley and the original pulley on the machine and bolted them together. It cut the speed roughly in half, and doubled the torque. Really sweet.

Now my point in all that was that it might not require a big, heavy cast flywheel. The large toothed pulley by itself really added a lot of power. It might be pretty simple to add one of those big pulleys and a longer belt to one of sewmun's portable walkers. I thought I'd seen smooth feet for them in Sailrite's catalog, so I just checked on their website. They have a leather foot for the zig-zag and one for the straight stitch. At $33 each. So the main thing it would take is finding a suitable, easy-to-mount pulley. Sailrite has belts for $10 and $12.

Anyway, it seems like a pretty do-able project. Good idea!

Doug

Edited May 14, 2010 by DougVL

[Art]

Careful, I've had some folks that have had problems with Sailrite feet on the 126. I'd like to hear if anyone has actually used them.

One of the advances that should be pursued is the SCR motor/controller. They have very respectable power at almost crawling speeds. More expensive yes, but you wouldn't need the monster wheel.

Art

I thought I'd seen smooth feet for them in Sailrite's catalog, so I just checked on their website. They have a leather foot for the zig-zag and one for the straight stitch. At $33 each. So the main thing it would take is finding a suitable, easy-to-mount pulley. Sailrite has belts for $10 and $12.

Anyway, it seems like a pretty do-able project. Good idea!

Doug

[DougVL]

Careful, I've had some folks that have had problems with Sailrite feet on the 126. I'd like to hear if anyone has actually used them.

One of the advances that should be pursued is the SCR motor/controller. They have very respectable power at almost crawling speeds. More expensive yes, but you wouldn't need the monster wheel.

Art

While surfing the web today, I ran into a little info that might help lotsa guys who want a variable speed motor with variable torque. The normal industrial way to do it for a long time was with a DC motor and controller. DC controllers are simple and cheap, and can easily have a sort of 'speed feedback' feature so that they don't slow down much when the load on the motor increases. But the DC motors are terifically expensive new. I worked for quite a while designing electrical controls for a machinery building company and picked up a couple from there as surplus. So far I used one on a wood lathe, and when that was sold put it on a Mitsubishi LU2-410. But it's a BIG motor for a portable. And for a foot pedal I had to rig up a way to connect an old car racing computer game speed control foot pedal I got from a thrift store.

Now to my point: I found this info on using an AC motor and variable speed controller on this lathe website v- http://www.homeshopsupply.com/vfd.htm

Hope this helps someone!

Doug

Careful, I've had some folks that have had problems with Sailrite feet on the 126. I'd like to hear if anyone has actually used them.

One of the advances that should be pursued is the SCR motor/controller. They have very respectable power at almost crawling speeds. More expensive yes, but you wouldn't need the monster wheel.

Art

While surfing the web today, I ran into a little info that might help lotsa guys who want a variable speed motor with variable torque. The normal industrial way to do it for a long time was with a DC motor and controller. DC controllers are simple and cheap, and can easily have a sort of 'speed feedback' feature so that they don't slow down much when the load on the motor increases. But the DC motors are terifically expensive new. I worked for quite a while designing electrical controls for a machinery building company and picked up a couple from there as surplus. So far I used one on a wood lathe, and when that was sold put it on a Mitsubishi LU2-410. But it's a BIG motor for a portable. And for a foot pedal I had to rig up a way to connect an old car racing computer game speed control foot pedal I got from a thrift store.

Now to my point: I found this info on using an AC motor and variable speed controller on this lathe website v- http://www.homeshopsupply.com/vfd.htm

Also, I've seen many web comments about using surplus DC motors and speed controllers from treadmills. They're usually about 1/2 HP and have good speed control under varying load. Still need a foot pedal potentiometer or rheostat, though.

Hope this helps someone!

Doug

[DougVL]

While surfing the web today, I ran into a little info that might help lotsa guys who want a variable speed motor with variable torque. The normal industrial way to do it for a long time was with a DC motor and controller. DC controllers are simple and cheap, and can easily have a sort of 'speed feedback' feature so that they don't slow down much when the load on the motor increases. But the DC motors are terifically expensive new. I worked for quite a while designing electrical controls for a machinery building company and picked up a couple from there as surplus. So far I used one on a wood lathe, and when that was sold put it on a Mitsubishi LU2-410. But it's a BIG motor for a portable. And for a foot pedal I had to rig up a way to connect an old car racing computer game speed control foot pedal I got from a thrift store.

Now to my point: I found this info on using an AC motor and variable speed controller on this lathe website - http://www.homeshopsupply.com/vfd.htm

(Note: an ac variable speed controller, called an inverter or a VFD - Variable Frequency Drive - will only work with a 3-phase motor. They will NOT work with an ordinary, common single phase motor!)

Also, I've seen many web comments about using surplus DC motors and speed controllers from treadmills. They're usually about 1/2 HP and have good speed control under varying load. Still need a foot pedal potentiometer or rheostat, though.

Hope this helps someone!

Doug

Edited May 15, 2010 by DougVL

[mmirob]

Then, after a year of monkey futching around with this P.O.S. machine and ruining dozens of projects and dozens of feet of expensive leather, that would have made him or her some good money if properly sewn, he or she finally decides to call a dealer that frequents these forums and is himself a member here. The dealer takes the toll free call, listens to the rants and raves of the angry leathercrafter who has dinked around with the P.O.S. eBay or Craigslist machine long enough, and after calming him or her down, offers to sell them a brand new fully functional leather sewing machine at a reasonable price. This machine will be made to sew real leather, using heavy thread and large needles, into multiple layers without causing them to go out of alignment, often up to or in excess of 3/4". It will have a brand new servo motor and possibly a speed reducer, giving it incredible punching power at extremely slow and controllable speeds.

Wiz,

You are so on the money here. I had to laugh out loud! I am the MASTER of monkey futching! In fact there are few others who have monkey futched as much as I have with machines. I too finally have a NEW class 4 on order with Steve. Can't wait to get it!

I love it when you chime in on these discussions.

Peace,

Rob

[BAD HIDE]

Getting back on topic... sorta...

A first sewing machine is a huge step for a hobbyist. I don't have one, and even though it'd help me a ton, I don't have the production need for one yet. When I feel I have a decent little side business going, enough patterns and sales humming along, I don't intend going cheap - it'll be straight to the big time with as much machine as I can save up for. It's not that I'm scared of broken machines or even unfamiliar with sewing - I worked in a tent repair and awning shop for most of my college summers, so I can sew fast and hard as any. I know what those industrial grade sewing machines can and can't do, and most cheap ones will not work well for the leather we use. They'll do it, but not happily. I have the experience to use and fix and adjust a lesser machine or a used machine, but ironically, I don't want to have a sewing machine repair hobby. I want to work with leather - so for now, I do it by hand. That means not taking on projects with lots of sewing - so no lined belts or guitar straps, not much for intricate bag interiors and the like. Also, since I'm mainly working with bags and cases, there's plenty of opportunity to make things most sewing machines can't, like boxed corners or cylinders, and do some lacing or use more rivets. I might pick up a cheaper industrial machine someday to sew up wallet interiors or make waxed canvas bags, but even that's not really that important.

Basically what I'm saying is a lesser machine doesn't make the hobbyist's life easier. If it takes buying 3 cheap machines to figure out that the hobbyist should have bought the 1 expensive one to start with, they've just wasted tons of time, money and if they just redesigned their projects to be more hand sewing friendly, they could have held off on buying the machine till they saved up for it. Until you buy a sewing machine, leatherworking is a relatively inexpensive hobby to have. My dad is a woodworker, and in the last few years since he retired, he's easily spent 5 grand on his shop for remodeling and new equipment. He's made probably about 3 grand in sales in the same time period. Yeah, that's not a good business model, but he's having a ball. The difference between his old tablesaw and new one is monumental, but his old one still was designed to cut wood. Sewing machines aren't like tablesaws, the cheap ones can't do most of what the expensive ones can, and you can't get far with one not designed to sew leather from the get go.

There's a lot of debate in here about the hobbyist vs the professional, but really when you get right down to the machines, there really isn't an acceptable hobby version. The Tippman is about as close to an acceptable hobbyist model, but even that's out of range for pocket change. So just go pro, you'll have a machine that can do way more than you need it too, it'll last forever, and you'll at least be able to sell it for something later on. Even if you loose a couple grand in the deal, I can name dozens of more hobbies that blow through cash much faster.

A home hobbyist will take years to recoup the cost of a high end machine, but if spending that money makes the hobby more fun, isn't that the point?