Braided Hackamore Headstall

[buckskin1]

here is a braided hackamore headstall that i just recently finished. i did not make the bosal just the headstall, so let me know what you think. this is the first braided project of this size that i have attempted and i know i need a lot of improvement so also please any pointers that you folks have, please let me know.

Thanks

[megabit]

Wow that looks great. Very neat project. Only think I noticed was the braid looks like it could be a little tighter in a few places. I doubt much of anyone who isn't a braider would even notice and it could just be the pictures. I would say that is clearly a piece to be proud of.

Mike

[Luke Hatley]

It looks Great to me....Can i see it in person when you come for a visit.

[roo4u]

i like the overall look of the piece. goes well with the bosal. however i agree with megabit...braid could be tighter in a couple of spots...not too noticeable until you bend the pieces. and on a couple of the knots. did you use precut lace? i have found with most pieces were braiders have trouble with gapping it is because they used commercial lace that is prefinished and therefore harder than cut it yourself. this makes it alot harder to get tightness.

[KnotHead]

Over all nice work. Few loose spots, but I do like it. Very nice work.

Brian...

[Bevan]

here is a braided hackamore headstall that i just recently finished. i did not make the bosal just the headstall, so let me know what you think. this is the first braided project of this size that i have attempted and i know i need a lot of improvement so also please any pointers that you folks have, please let me know.

Thanks

G’day Buckskin how ya going mate?

Before I say what the other good folk have said!! I will ask what did you use as a core??? and what was the diameter of it??

RULE OF THUMB FOR ME

diameter of the core x 4.5 = ? divided by the number of strings I want to use ? = the width of the string I will use for a perfect cover !!

Plus I bevel my strings with my own beveller for that perfect look,

Well give it a go and let us know if it works for you too !!!

Cheers from down under

Bevan

www.bwrwhips.com

Here is my web site if you want to check out the beveller and the results I achieve by using this rule.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Bevan

[entiendo]

Along with the plaiting, the buttons could use a little work too I think. I can't tell for sure but they look a little loose and they haven't been completely rolled and shaped.

Very nice look though.

[buckskin1]

thanks for the input.

i used commercial precut lace from tandy for this project and it is very stiff. i wasn't sure if that was part of the problem or not I have just started cutting my own lace. the core that i used was rope and i believe that it was 3/16 diameter. i am cutting some latigo into lace now for another headstall that i am wanting to make but am having trouble beveling. the lace keeps wanting to ride up onto the blade instead of cutting the blades are sharp but i am not getting good results. any thoughts on this, i'm sure that it is user error. i have another quick question. is there anybody that is willing to teach braiding. traveling 6-8 hours from north east Arkansas would be no problem.

Thanks

Luke I will bring it with me when i come to see you. was hoping to be over that way Saturday but have a farrier coming and that will probably take all day.

[entiendo]

Did you use soap or fat or something to soften and slick the string a little. That helps it slide together tighter.

I'm in california but I bet there is someone that can help.

I can't help with the beveling as it seems each type of those tools works a little differently. I had trouble with certain hides when I was first learning to bevel too. I just had to get to know my tool and the subtle differences in the leather. Latigo is probably pretty thick though...not sure, maybe that's the difficulty.

[buckskin1]

i used fiebings white saddle soap on the strings. it softened them some but they were still very rigid.

[Aggiebraider]

Hey, I just made a bracelet with multiple buttons from that precut Tandy kangaroo lace crap, and from the looks of the picture, you used what they call natural and then whatever they call the dark brown for the interweaves on the buttons. From what I noticed, the natural doesnt take in the moisture as well as the brown does. I was able to get the brown lace to actually turn into something that feels like leather. Also, I was pretty liberal with the soap and made sure that there was plenty of water in my sponge so I could make lather, rather than just put the soap on by itself. May help with some of the stiffness.

I would have to agree with Bevan in that I dont think your core diameter is the correct size for the width of the lace. It is entirely too late for me to go look up what you should use with 1/8" 8 strand round, but Bevan's calculation seems right.

I think that some of the button issues that others are seeing may be fixed by using the correct core diameter. But with that said, I am in the same boat as you. I am still learning how to get the foundations just right so that the buttons cover, without gaps and without bunching up or not having enough foundation.....probably like everything else that has to do with leather - just practice practice practice because it takes a certain feel lol.

Hope I could be at least somewhat of a help.

[entiendo]

For those of you that buy lace try this website. http://www.amazing-lace.net/ I know there are others but this will at least get you away from Tandy. The lace is made from the same hides I buy. Ultimately if you keep braiding you will want to cut your own lace as buttons should be made with the best part of your hide, but at least you can braid with this lace.

I use 3/16" core for 1/8" string 8 plait and 1/8" core for 3/32" string 8 plait. Someone did the math for me some time ago and it's worked perfect each and every time.

Buttons are another matter though. For good coverage they depend on the right size turks head. I learned how to increase bites on a turks head right here on this website a few years back, and if I can do it anyone can!

[Melanie Wilfong]

For those of you that buy lace try this website. http://www.amazing-lace.net/ I know there are others but this will at least get you away from Tandy. The lace is made from the same hides I buy. Ultimately if you keep braiding you will want to cut your own lace as buttons should be made with the best part of your hide, but at least you can braid with this lace.

I use 3/16" core for 1/8" string 8 plait and 1/8" core for 3/32" string 8 plait. Someone did the math for me some time ago and it's worked perfect each and every time.

Buttons are another matter though. For good coverage they depend on the right size turks head. I learned how to increase bites on a turks head right here on this website a few years back, and if I can do it anyone can!

Hello, I'm going to build this same headstall. What kind of braided core did you use for 8-plait 1/8" string? Size/type string, or is it leather cord? Thank you.

[entiendo]

I either use a nylon core (3/16 for 1/8" string) or a braided 4 plait with 1/8" string.

I highly recommend using 3/32 for a headstall. Much finer work. The same with your buttons 3/32". Keep the plaiting nice and tight and split your string to just under .1 mm and it should loop without being able to see the core.

[buckskin1]

Hello, I'm going to build this same headstall. What kind of braided core did you use for 8-plait 1/8" string? Size/type string, or is it leather cord? Thank you.

i used a 3/16 braided nylon rope don't know what brand it is, i just had it lying around i think it was purchased a wal mart.

[Melanie Wilfong]

i used a 3/16 braided nylon rope don't know what brand it is, i just had it lying around i think it was purchased a wal mart.

Oh great. Grant's book said to braid over a braided leather cord and that sounded like a huge pain. So braided over rope is ok for headstall? Thank you! I've been practicing 6 strand over rope and it looks good. After several tries got it nice and tight. I was thinking of going to 8 strand for the head stall. I've been tying woven knots over it for practice.

[Aggiebraider]

You can braid over anything you would like but something to think about is how the core material will react to water and heat. Most nylon cord should be fine and not shrink, but paracord is notorious for shrinking when it gets wet. This is why I try to preshrink any paracord that I am going to use BEFORE i start braiding. The cover doesnt actually shrink, but the core inside each strand does, and that can disfigure your braiding for sure. Also, most nylon cord that you will find at hardware stores is some what mushy (for lack of a better term) and I dont feel would make a very good core. Look for something that is fairly stiff so when you pull your strings in tight, it actually has something to pull against. I would suggest looking for Halter material (same stuff thats used for rope halters). Columbia Basin Knot Co carries a lot of different sizes, types, and colors of not only halter cord but lots of other ropes. Give them a call and Im sure the would even send you just a few feet for this first project.

You can even braid over steel cable. I think Grant makes reference to bosals that were made using steel cable for cores, and I bought some the other day for pretty cheap. Hopefully I can find time to actually do some braiding and put these cores to work.

Hope that helps,

CW

[roo4u]

what ever you do dont use cable for cores in bosals...the only exception may be tiedowns.....i have a commercially made rawhide bosal that has a cable core. you can not shape it in any way, so it may not hit the nerve points correctly. when we still used it we had to pad the thing cuz it took hair and hide off of the face on my moms horse. also it is not a legal core for the show pen in any association.

[Aggiebraider]

I dont understand how it wore the hide off your horses nose since its not the actual cable that touches the horse. To me it wouldnt work any differently than a rawhide core bosal since its still covered in lots of tape and leather or rawhide. I can understand the difference in shaping it, but I am able to shape this cable really easily and it holds its shape. Probably not as long term as rawhide would hold its shape, but personally I dont see a difference in function other than the shape. And as far as legality im going to keep these, so they wont see the inside of a show pen.

Just my 2 cents worth

CW

[roo4u]

it wore on his jaw....because it cant be shaped...so it rubbed and the rawhide wore the hair off and then rubbed the skin raw...even with extra wraps of the mecate we could not get the bars of the bosal off of the horses jaw. whereas with a rawhide core you can shape it and use a shaping block to set the shape and if you need to you can use the mecate to get the desired spread. even the paracord bosal that i braided with a lariat core i could shape with the wraps of the mecate.

i guess it depends on what kind of cable we are talking about.....what grant referenced, and whats in my bosal, is telephone or power line cable and while its not hard to get it bent around for the basic shape from there its impossible to make any adjustments its just too stiff.

[Melanie Wilfong]

You can braid over anything you would like but something to think about is how the core material will react to water and heat. Most nylon cord should be fine and not shrink, but paracord is notorious for shrinking when it gets wet. This is why I try to preshrink any paracord that I am going to use BEFORE i start braiding. The cover doesnt actually shrink, but the core inside each strand does, and that can disfigure your braiding for sure. Also, most nylon cord that you will find at hardware stores is some what mushy (for lack of a better term) and I dont feel would make a very good core. Look for something that is fairly stiff so when you pull your strings in tight, it actually has something to pull against. I would suggest looking for Halter material (same stuff thats used for rope halters). Columbia Basin Knot Co carries a lot of different sizes, types, and colors of not only halter cord but lots of other ropes. Give them a call and Im sure the would even send you just a few feet for this first project.

You can even braid over steel cable. I think Grant makes reference to bosals that were made using steel cable for cores, and I bought some the other day for pretty cheap. Hopefully I can find time to actually do some braiding and put these cores to work.

Hope that helps,

CW

This is a huge help. Thank you all for your suggestions. My practice braids were done on a core that was too mushy, so I don't want to make that mistake again. My favorite hackamore (that I've worn out, and the old man who built it has passed) has a bosal made of stiff rope with 1/4" braided leather noseband. If anyone has any suggestions about the bosal, I'd greatly appreciate it. We have old lariats, I hate to cut up a good one, but was going to use one not really good for roping anymore.

[Melanie Wilfong]

I either use a nylon core (3/16 for 1/8" string) or a braided 4 plait with 1/8" string.

I highly recommend using 3/32 for a headstall. Much finer work. The same with your buttons 3/32". Keep the plaiting nice and tight and split your string to just under .1 mm and it should loop without being able to see the core.

Thank you. I want a finer braid and will use 3/32". How many strand plait do you think for the headstall at beg. of this tread? Sorry, but split string to under .1mm? When/where do I do this?

[entiendo]

I braided a few years without splitting my string so I'm sure you will be fine. I've just seen a rather large improvement in the smoothness my braiding once I started splitting my string. If you can get a hide that is between .08-.1mm that would be great. The bevel is important too. It's the little things that set your braiding apart from others.

I just started braiding my own cores. I like it a lot, worth the time once you have a little speed. I use the outside of the hide for the core string. I still have plenty of nylon core though, just in case. I actually like the softness of the nylon core, reminds me of the kangaroo.

Defiantly 8 plait! 4 plait is to petite for my taste. 6 plait is OK, but 8 is best. You can do 8 plait without a core. You can roll it round but it will have a smaller diameter than an 8 plait with a core. You won't have to worry about the core showing through though.

[Bevan]

I braided a few years without splitting my string so I'm sure you will be fine. I've just seen a rather large improvement in the smoothness my braiding once I started splitting my string. If you can get a hide that is between .08-.1mm that would be great. The bevel is important too. It's the little things that set your braiding apart from others.

I just started braiding my own cores. I like it a lot, worth the time once you have a little speed. I use the outside of the hide for the core string. I still have plenty of nylon core though, just in case. I actually like the softness of the nylon core, reminds me of the kangaroo.

Defiantly 8 plait! 4 plait is to petite for my taste. 6 plait is OK, but 8 is best. You can do 8 plait without a core. You can roll it round but it will have a smaller diameter than an 8 plait with a core. You won't have to worry about the core showing through though.

Long time no talk mate , but i would not do a 8plait with out a core , it will look like a square circle !!!! 4 plait with out a core ,,, fine ,, anything else ,,, i would use a core and if you have a prob with the core showing thru then you havent got your string size right!! remember the golden rule ,

dia x 4.5 =?

div by the number of strings you want to use =?

now that is the size strings i would cut for a perfect cover !!!

When i do a 12mm / 12inch bosal i know the finaloverlay will add about 3 mm to my finnished work so the core size will be about the 9mm mark or 3/8 for my USA mates

Cheers from down under

www.bwrwhips.com

Edited February 3, 2011 by Bevan

[entiendo]

I know it has been a long time!! A square circle...that's funny. Kind of true though. I've had pretty good luck rolling it round without a core. Some of my customers like a smaller bracelet but don't want a 4 plait. I have no idea if it goes "round square" over time though as I haven't made one for myself. It still has a very nice look even if it's a little square.

I found the thicker string will sometimes show the core on a turn back. I had a hide that was pretty weak so I left it pretty thick and had a heck of a time with it. I rolled and rolled and rolled..I guess you can't roll it thinner though. I guess that's why we use kangaroo instead of cow hide.