Lining Questions I Need A How To?

[cal429258]

Hi all

I have been working on making a few different projects but have run into a little bit of a snag

I don’t know how to do lining?

I have read a lot of other people’s questions on here about lining but I have not found an answer yet.

Here is a piece of real art from

As you can see Kevin King has done an outstanding job with the lining roll over on this cuff.

But I see no stitching.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=24045 pics of Kevins Fleur de cuff

So my first question is after gluing lining to work peace do you run a line of stitches along all edges?

Q.2 – How close to the edge does the stitching need to be?

Q.3- do you treat (oil) lining or anything to make softer or more pliable?

Q. 4- How did Kevin K. do this great roll over without any stitching showing?? This question was asked but no reply yet

[albane]

Cal,

Kevin Is using the lining to hide and protect his work.

The lining he selected not only is doing the basic lining job but it's adding a bit of class to the project. kevins selection of color looks great.

Your question about the edging is a simple one to answer.

the edging is a simple edge piping.

While a magician never reviles his secretes. I doesn't seem fair to disclose Kevin's here.

You asked:

So my first question is after gluing lining to work peace do you run a line of stitches along all edges?

Q.2 – How close to the edge does the stitching need to be?

Q.3- do you treat (oil) lining or anything to make softer or more pliable?

Q. 4- How did Kevin K. do this great roll over without any stitching showing??

Kevin must have asked himself the same questions.

It is obvious that he found the answer.

I bet this is not his first piece.

I think it's time for you to follow in kevins foot steps. do some R&D figure it out and let us know how it's going. after you get some pics posted we can help by critiquing your work (that's how people do it around here}

[Hilly]

Cal,

Kevin Is using the lining to hide and protect his work.

The lining he selected not only is doing the basic lining job but it's adding a bit of class to the project. kevins selection of color looks great.

Your question about the edging is a simple one to answer.

the edging is a simple edge piping.

While a magician never reviles his secretes. I doesn't seem fair to disclose Kevin's here.

You asked:

So my first question is after gluing lining to work peace do you run a line of stitches along all edges?

Q.2 – How close to the edge does the stitching need to be?

Q.3- do you treat (oil) lining or anything to make softer or more pliable?

Q. 4- How did Kevin K. do this great roll over without any stitching showing??

Kevin must have asked himself the same questions.

It is obvious that he found the answer.

I bet this is not his first piece.

I think it's time for you to follow in kevins foot steps. do some R&D figure it out and let us know how it's going. after you get some pics posted we can help by critiquing your work (that's how people do it around here}

How close to the edge is a matter of personal choice. The edging and cuff are sewn right sides together, then the lining is folded around to the back side and glued down near the edge. Then turn the work over to the front side, and stitch it right next to the edging, through all thicknesses. Turn over and trim away the extra edging very close to the stitching on the backside with a sharp knife or an edger. If you look closely at the cuff photo, you can see the stitching right next to the edging on the front side...

You don't need to oil anything if it's thin enough. I'm guessing Kevin used something like lambskin lining, which is somewhere between 1 and 2 oz in weight. You could do the same thing with pigskin lining.

Kevin is very talented when it comes to sewing fine detail!

[flyingcuda]

i thought "how people around here do it" was to help when we have questions, of course there is a lot of trial and error, that's how we learn....but we also learn from those more experienced than us. that is how we keep the art going, is it not? is it not also one of the many reasons for this wonderful forum? if i am wrong then please accept my apology.

[cal429258]

Thank you

To all that ANSWERED questions and helped me understand better (Hilly, Flyingcuda)

I will be giving it a try and seeing how it comes out. I wish more people would be as helpful as you.

Flyingcuda I feel the same as you do. I really wish people would stop treating this whole thing as some big secret! Yes I understand this is an Art and every one will have different answers to the same question. But if I never get any answerers or examples I will never find my way of doing it.

And to AL isn’t some one trying to copy your art the biggest complement?

And if you are worried about competition in a sales aspect (witch its not for me) You need to read some sales/ retail marketing books and understand how competition causes growth.

Ok sorry got off track there.

I have a cuff I did posted up here

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=25893

The cuff is getting a lining on because it scratches the wrist.

So there will be pics up soon of the modified version soon.

Another Question

1-What glue is preferred for the lining? Do I just use my contact cement?

2-I have pig and lamb leather. Should I put a wax on them so they don’t bleed when wet with sweat?

[Kevin King]

Ok.

First of all, I am flattered that my work is the topic here.

Second of all. There is no secret to this binding. It is callet a french roll and is very simple. I use it a ton. While I figured out how to do it before I knew what it was called, I have no problem sharing how I do it.

As a matter of fact, here is a link to a tutorial I posted quite a while ago.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9940

As far as learning how to do things, I am about 94.33% self taught. That means that I have spent a lot of time staring at things I like, scatching my head, making templates, sewing sample (practice) pieces and alway trying to figure out "how the hell can I pull this off?"

The cue case I recently posted has a lot of trial pieces made before it. I have a panel that I stitched out several color/styles of little corner pieces of things. Primarilly the pocket on the case. I eventually came up with a way to do it that worked best for me. Without having to ask anyone.

One thing I have learned in my short 8ish years of working with leather is that there is no right or wrong way to do something as long as you get what you were going for in the end.

I will say this though. I have been asked many times about how I transfer my designs to leather. This I have struggled with as it is in my nature to want to help people. However, when I consulted another leatherworker that I consider to be the best at making products similar to what I make. His reply was "keep the mystique brother".

I always wondered how the hell he did what he did. Still to this day I don't know how he does it. I will never ask him. I figured out a way that works for me and thats all that matters.

My only words of advice are to keep trying and staring at things to figure out your own way of doing it.

KK

[Kevin King]

Also...

If you look at my profile thing at the left of the page, I have "fakin it" as my leatherwork specialty.

In addition to people asking how I do certain things, I have even had people offer to pay me money to spend a time in my shop to learn how I do things.

I turn these people down primarily because i'd probably be teaching people bad habits. I don't really know if its the "right" way to do something. It just works for me and thats all that matters. The end product is good.

I'll probably add more as it comes to me while i'm in the shop.

KK

[cal429258]

Thanks Kevin for the info and insightAnd I really mean it Thank You for your help .

This may not sit well with to many people on here but it is my thoughts and lucky for everyone they don't have to agree but please people do think of what I am saying for a few seconds.

By people asking you how you do something is a complement and a show of respect.

Why is it respectful well would you rather have someone try and copy you/reverse engineer your style or item without your knowledge or would you like to know?

Don't let yourself be limited in what you do because you want to keep secrets because if everyone keeps secrets we are all doomed. You people worship Al Stohlman, did he keep Secrets. Without his books more than half of us would be lost!

Here is a little bit of business talk real quick for those worried about profits.

If someone makes a bracelet just like mine and sales 1000 of them I will be more likely to sell more bracelets to because of the other person's successes. Because with 1000 people wearing bracelets like mine is going to start more people looking for bracelets like them and many people will find mine and buy mine as they look for the other persons. In the end I am more successful.

ITS ART POPLE not industry. we are here to help each other like we are artists NOT try to undercut like we are corporations.

For anyone out there If I do anything (which I doubt) that you would like to know how I did it let me know because I am an open book.

I would be glad to tell you how I did it but trust me knowing is only half way there the rest is a lot of practice and mistakes.

Edited August 31, 2010 by cal429258

[wareagle]

From some one that has dribbled in several tradesman's skill sets, I have learned not all methods work for all people, and it is best to research the subject and study how others do it then try doing it on your own and perfecting your own method for doing that skill.

[funnygirl62221]

I just wanted to point out that this is the second post I have seen from "Al" that is rude and obnoxious. I also wanted to point out that in the 6 months I have been creeping on this site, it is the first time I have seen a response like that. I also noticed that you are new here Al and FYI the people here are nice and helpful and they don't make others feel bad about asking questions. So please don't feel the need to respond to questions, because there are plenty of masters here who are true teachers.

Ellen

[Russ]

Obviously you haven't been reading closely.....we've lost some posters around here and had some lengthy discussions of "netiquette." Al's response was pretty tame compared to some that's been posted here. While I probably would have tried to be more...circumspect...in my response, I agree with Al's main points. KK is a master, but he is also a businessman. If he wants to be a TEACHER in addition, that's just an extra bonus for the rest of us. Anyone who has a problem with Kevin keeping some hard-found trade secrets to himself, well....I don't know what to say to that except I disagree. If you REALLY want some insight into Kevin's work, you should do what I did....purchase one of his wallets, and take it apart. I bet that wallet had the shortest life-span of any wallet Kevin ever built. I photographed it, poked and prodded it, took it apart, made patterns, notes, drawings

And, I might point out that Kevin IS a teacher. If the original poster had taken a few minutes to search, she would have found answers to some of her questions and even a TUTORIAL that was posted by Kevin.

I just wanted to point out that this is the second post I have seen from "Al" that is rude and obnoxious. I also wanted to point out that in the 6 months I have been creeping on this site, it is the first time I have seen a response like that. I also noticed that you are new here Al and FYI the people here are nice and helpful and they don't make others feel bad about asking questions. So please don't feel the need to respond to questions, because there are plenty of masters here who are true teachers.

Ellen

[Kevin King]

Well now.

Seems this thread has gotten a little of track and is turning into a pissing match real quick. Not good people.

When I first began working with leather, I stopped in to a local upolstery shop that was advertising "we do motorcycle seats". At that time, that was what got me into leathwork in the first place.

Anyway, I stopped into the shop to ask about foam. Very simple question. His reply to me was that he didn't appreciate the fact that I was just waltzing in to find out the answer to a question that he had spent years figuring out himself.

I did not say another word and left mad. Mad that he wouldn't share.

But. Now I understand more where he was coming from. I have spent a lot of time and energy to locate all the right materials, learn all the methods to get the result I was wanting. I feel like this. If I was able to figure it out on my own, without asking everyone who? how? where? then why can't anyone else do the same.

There is a huge sense of pride and accomplishment knowing I have learned what I have. On my own.

Now, I am willing to share nearly every part of what I have learned except for the one thing that, I feel, makes my work special.

On to some other points.

Ellen, I think you are off-base in accusing Al of posting rude and obnoxious. I did not read it that way at all. I think his advice is spot on for the question that was asked. As a matter of fact, If it was not for Al, I wouldn't even know this thread existed. He sent me a message so that I could have the opportunity to reply. Thank you Al.

Cal, You're part right. This is an art AND an industry. While I understand what you are saying about the competition thing, that may hold true if you are mass producing items, it definitely does not with one-off custom pieces. People spend a lot of money on a wallet from me and it's not because they need a new wallet. It is because of what I am able to do.

You brought up Al Stohlman that ("you people") worship. Last time I checked, his books are not free. Make no mistake, this IS an industry.

I am not any smarter than anyone else, if I am able to figure out how to do something on my own, so can anyone else.

I have a very good leatherworker friend in New York. He is (in my opinion) the best there is. We have talked about leatherwork, customers, girls, cars, bikes, pets, and just about everything else you can imagine. But when it comes down to a couple of secrets he has and what I have, we have never discussed it. If I want to figure out how to make end caps like his, I am positive I can figure it out without asking.

I gotta get back to the shop.

[flyingcuda]

we certainly have gotten way off topic, i suppose that's what happens when people have emotion in thier work. i don't think the original poster was asking for trade secrets. i'm sure some research was done. i know that if there is something new i need to try....i research as much as i can, i am in a small community with no resources, hours away from any place that offers any. i research as much as i can on the net, try what i can and re-try. but there does come a point where i can not figure out how to do some things, that is what led me to this caring, informative site. i certainly understand the need to protect yourself, it is a very difficult time financially, much harder to get people to spend money on quality. but i also understand that if we are not learning, then the art dies for lack of quality. i only took offence to "that's how people do it around here" because i have seen everyone on here very helpful and generous, and we who are learning appreciate the fact that some of them did learn the hard way and are sharing with us. it doesn't mean that we are not learning other things on our own. we are not just taking like greedy little children, we will hopefully be passing on the knowledge we have aquired to the next generation of the leather bug bite victims unfortunatly cal429258, i know nothing about lining, if i did i would help you out, good luck and hopefully this doesn't detere you from asking more questions on here. this really is a great place and there are many who like to share, otherwise the people who work thier a$$e$ off to make sure this place keeps running would not waste thier time. now i'm off to try and figure out how to make a 2 1/2" watchband for someone and make it look good... 2 1/2 inches!

Edited September 1, 2010 by flyingcuda

[Denise]

This is an interesting thread to read because it shows how diverse people are in personality and learning styles. I'm a "why waste my time reinventing the wheel when the information is available from others if I ask or read" type. My husband is a "I'm going to figure it out by myself no matter how long it takes" type. You can imagine some of the discussions we have had over the years... That's what makes life exciting, right! The same differences exist as far as sharing information. There are the "what do you want to know? I'd like to help in any way I can" types and the "I figured it out on my own, so can you" type. The majority of us are somewhere in between, and the reasons for being the way we are are as individual as we are. Leatherwork, by nature, is an individual occupation. A lot of people spend a lot of time alone sniffing glue fumes involuntarily (at least in the majority of cases). Some of the most creative work I have seen on here has been done by people without access to the traditional learning situations who have come up with their own very unique styles and techniques. Others work to master the traditional patterns and methods. The diversity of what can be done with leather is one of the biggest fascinations about it.

Leatherworker.net was set up as a community where people could see and applaud other's work and learn from it so their own would improve. Some people sit and study pictures for hours, seeing the fine details and learning that way. The whole "How do I do that" forum was set up as an incentive to ask questions. Nobody is required to share their techniques, but Leatherworker makes sharing and learning available in a way that wasn't possible even 10 years ago. Those who participate gain more than those who lurk, but lurkers are welcome too. Asking questions is encouraged. After all, it is one of the most efficient ways of learning - if the question is answered. The responses are voluntary, and the reader has to decide on the usefulness of the information provided to them in their situation. That is what being an individual in a community is all about. Nothing is required here. What is given is given voluntarily, which is one of the reasons LW.net is such a fun place to hang out. People tend to be happy when they are giving and helping others.

Kevin, thank you for posting your work and being an inspiriation to others by showing them just what can be done, artistically and in construction. Thanks also for being willing to share as much as you do. Your wallets are absolutely unique and beautiful.

[cal429258]

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art. I am sorry to say I recommended this sight to a few friends. I also regret that I recommended your individual web sights to buy item from. But don’t worry I will keep your guys secret and never revel that you selling leather goods.

Your secrets safe with me

I guess if I can learn every thing that I need with out help then why am I on this forum??

I will not be posting another word on this forum.

[Kevin King]

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art. I am sorry to say I recommended this sight to a few friends. I also regret that I recommended your individual web sights to buy item from. But don’t worry I will keep your guys secret and never revel that you selling leather goods.

Your secrets safe with me

I guess if I can learn every thing that I need with out help then why am I on this forum??

I will not be posting another word on this forum.

Well that seems a bit dramatic...Don't you think?

I am not sure what you are getting so upset about. Seems to me you have a lot of people here trying to help you. I know that your specific questions have been answered.

[Johanna]

Cal, I don't know what's got you so upset? Please read Denise's post again. We are here to learn and share. You can take initiative to learn, and you can be useful if you teach, but no one is obligated to share anything they don't want to, of course.

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art.

This is simply not true, and I know- I've been here a little over 4 years. I believe the forum's success is because of the willingness of the members to share- whether it's experience or pics or questions. I'm closing this thread because it's gotten a little off topic. The OP can ask as many questions in new threads as desired, and we will do our best to help. As always.

Johanna