Lining Questions I Need A How To?

[Russ]

Obviously you haven't been reading closely.....we've lost some posters around here and had some lengthy discussions of "netiquette." Al's response was pretty tame compared to some that's been posted here. While I probably would have tried to be more...circumspect...in my response, I agree with Al's main points. KK is a master, but he is also a businessman. If he wants to be a TEACHER in addition, that's just an extra bonus for the rest of us. Anyone who has a problem with Kevin keeping some hard-found trade secrets to himself, well....I don't know what to say to that except I disagree. If you REALLY want some insight into Kevin's work, you should do what I did....purchase one of his wallets, and take it apart. I bet that wallet had the shortest life-span of any wallet Kevin ever built. I photographed it, poked and prodded it, took it apart, made patterns, notes, drawings

And, I might point out that Kevin IS a teacher. If the original poster had taken a few minutes to search, she would have found answers to some of her questions and even a TUTORIAL that was posted by Kevin.

I just wanted to point out that this is the second post I have seen from "Al" that is rude and obnoxious. I also wanted to point out that in the 6 months I have been creeping on this site, it is the first time I have seen a response like that. I also noticed that you are new here Al and FYI the people here are nice and helpful and they don't make others feel bad about asking questions. So please don't feel the need to respond to questions, because there are plenty of masters here who are true teachers.

Ellen

[Kevin King]

Well now.

Seems this thread has gotten a little of track and is turning into a pissing match real quick. Not good people.

When I first began working with leather, I stopped in to a local upolstery shop that was advertising "we do motorcycle seats". At that time, that was what got me into leathwork in the first place.

Anyway, I stopped into the shop to ask about foam. Very simple question. His reply to me was that he didn't appreciate the fact that I was just waltzing in to find out the answer to a question that he had spent years figuring out himself.

I did not say another word and left mad. Mad that he wouldn't share.

But. Now I understand more where he was coming from. I have spent a lot of time and energy to locate all the right materials, learn all the methods to get the result I was wanting. I feel like this. If I was able to figure it out on my own, without asking everyone who? how? where? then why can't anyone else do the same.

There is a huge sense of pride and accomplishment knowing I have learned what I have. On my own.

Now, I am willing to share nearly every part of what I have learned except for the one thing that, I feel, makes my work special.

On to some other points.

Ellen, I think you are off-base in accusing Al of posting rude and obnoxious. I did not read it that way at all. I think his advice is spot on for the question that was asked. As a matter of fact, If it was not for Al, I wouldn't even know this thread existed. He sent me a message so that I could have the opportunity to reply. Thank you Al.

Cal, You're part right. This is an art AND an industry. While I understand what you are saying about the competition thing, that may hold true if you are mass producing items, it definitely does not with one-off custom pieces. People spend a lot of money on a wallet from me and it's not because they need a new wallet. It is because of what I am able to do.

You brought up Al Stohlman that ("you people") worship. Last time I checked, his books are not free. Make no mistake, this IS an industry.

I am not any smarter than anyone else, if I am able to figure out how to do something on my own, so can anyone else.

I have a very good leatherworker friend in New York. He is (in my opinion) the best there is. We have talked about leatherwork, customers, girls, cars, bikes, pets, and just about everything else you can imagine. But when it comes down to a couple of secrets he has and what I have, we have never discussed it. If I want to figure out how to make end caps like his, I am positive I can figure it out without asking.

I gotta get back to the shop.

[flyingcuda]

we certainly have gotten way off topic, i suppose that's what happens when people have emotion in thier work. i don't think the original poster was asking for trade secrets. i'm sure some research was done. i know that if there is something new i need to try....i research as much as i can, i am in a small community with no resources, hours away from any place that offers any. i research as much as i can on the net, try what i can and re-try. but there does come a point where i can not figure out how to do some things, that is what led me to this caring, informative site. i certainly understand the need to protect yourself, it is a very difficult time financially, much harder to get people to spend money on quality. but i also understand that if we are not learning, then the art dies for lack of quality. i only took offence to "that's how people do it around here" because i have seen everyone on here very helpful and generous, and we who are learning appreciate the fact that some of them did learn the hard way and are sharing with us. it doesn't mean that we are not learning other things on our own. we are not just taking like greedy little children, we will hopefully be passing on the knowledge we have aquired to the next generation of the leather bug bite victims unfortunatly cal429258, i know nothing about lining, if i did i would help you out, good luck and hopefully this doesn't detere you from asking more questions on here. this really is a great place and there are many who like to share, otherwise the people who work thier a$$e$ off to make sure this place keeps running would not waste thier time. now i'm off to try and figure out how to make a 2 1/2" watchband for someone and make it look good... 2 1/2 inches!

Edited September 1, 2010 by flyingcuda

[Denise]

This is an interesting thread to read because it shows how diverse people are in personality and learning styles. I'm a "why waste my time reinventing the wheel when the information is available from others if I ask or read" type. My husband is a "I'm going to figure it out by myself no matter how long it takes" type. You can imagine some of the discussions we have had over the years... That's what makes life exciting, right! The same differences exist as far as sharing information. There are the "what do you want to know? I'd like to help in any way I can" types and the "I figured it out on my own, so can you" type. The majority of us are somewhere in between, and the reasons for being the way we are are as individual as we are. Leatherwork, by nature, is an individual occupation. A lot of people spend a lot of time alone sniffing glue fumes involuntarily (at least in the majority of cases). Some of the most creative work I have seen on here has been done by people without access to the traditional learning situations who have come up with their own very unique styles and techniques. Others work to master the traditional patterns and methods. The diversity of what can be done with leather is one of the biggest fascinations about it.

Leatherworker.net was set up as a community where people could see and applaud other's work and learn from it so their own would improve. Some people sit and study pictures for hours, seeing the fine details and learning that way. The whole "How do I do that" forum was set up as an incentive to ask questions. Nobody is required to share their techniques, but Leatherworker makes sharing and learning available in a way that wasn't possible even 10 years ago. Those who participate gain more than those who lurk, but lurkers are welcome too. Asking questions is encouraged. After all, it is one of the most efficient ways of learning - if the question is answered. The responses are voluntary, and the reader has to decide on the usefulness of the information provided to them in their situation. That is what being an individual in a community is all about. Nothing is required here. What is given is given voluntarily, which is one of the reasons LW.net is such a fun place to hang out. People tend to be happy when they are giving and helping others.

Kevin, thank you for posting your work and being an inspiriation to others by showing them just what can be done, artistically and in construction. Thanks also for being willing to share as much as you do. Your wallets are absolutely unique and beautiful.

[cal429258]

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art. I am sorry to say I recommended this sight to a few friends. I also regret that I recommended your individual web sights to buy item from. But don’t worry I will keep your guys secret and never revel that you selling leather goods.

Your secrets safe with me

I guess if I can learn every thing that I need with out help then why am I on this forum??

I will not be posting another word on this forum.

[Kevin King]

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art. I am sorry to say I recommended this sight to a few friends. I also regret that I recommended your individual web sights to buy item from. But don’t worry I will keep your guys secret and never revel that you selling leather goods.

Your secrets safe with me

I guess if I can learn every thing that I need with out help then why am I on this forum??

I will not be posting another word on this forum.

Well that seems a bit dramatic...Don't you think?

I am not sure what you are getting so upset about. Seems to me you have a lot of people here trying to help you. I know that your specific questions have been answered.

[Johanna]

Cal, I don't know what's got you so upset? Please read Denise's post again. We are here to learn and share. You can take initiative to learn, and you can be useful if you teach, but no one is obligated to share anything they don't want to, of course.

Sorry to hear that many of you are on this forum to not answer questions, help or guide those of use who wanted to get into the art.

This is simply not true, and I know- I've been here a little over 4 years. I believe the forum's success is because of the willingness of the members to share- whether it's experience or pics or questions. I'm closing this thread because it's gotten a little off topic. The OP can ask as many questions in new threads as desired, and we will do our best to help. As always.

Johanna