Vinegaroon...rubbing Off?

[robs456]

Hi all,

With the help from the posts in this board made a batch of vinegaroon, and it worked wonderfully.

Or did it?

First thing I made with it was a belt for my father, and now he comes back and says one of his shirts got a big black area on the back and he suspects the belt as that's the only black item he was wearing at the time. I have to trust him, after all, he's my father...

Now, I thought vinegaroon didn't rub off. Does it?

Or will it transfer to wet clothes, like from sweat or rain?

Is there a good finish to fix the problem, if there is one?

I used Neatsfoot oil only on the belt, could that be part of it?

Makes me kinda worried as I've made some bracelets and keyrings (and another belt) of the stuff.

Thanks/

robs

[TwinOaks]

I've never had 'roon 'rub off', but it is possible that there's some transfer from the leather if it's getting wet. Was your batch 'smelly'? If so, the acetic acid was still active.....may need to be neutralized. When I use it, I apply Aussie conditioner instead of oil. Perhaps you could check to see what kind of moisture it's being exposed to, and if needed, seal it.

I made a belt and used 'roon as the color/finish, and quite honestly I sweat HARD (like, time for some dry clothes), but have never had any problems with color transfer.

[robs456]

I've never had 'roon 'rub off', but it is possible that there's some transfer from the leather if it's getting wet. Was your batch 'smelly'? If so, the acetic acid was still active.....may need to be neutralized. When I use it, I apply Aussie conditioner instead of oil. Perhaps you could check to see what kind of moisture it's being exposed to, and if needed, seal it.

I made a belt and used 'roon as the color/finish, and quite honestly I sweat HARD (like, time for some dry clothes), but have never had any problems with color transfer.

Thanks,

Yup, it was smelly so I dipped the thing in a baking soda solution until the bubbles stopped, and then some. Belt didn't smell much after that, but maybe a little. Also, I found that dipping in baking soda will darken the color a bit so I always do that now.

On the other hand, I know my father went hiking in the summer so I guess large amounts of sweat could be involved...

I'll try some other finish like you suggested.

[MADMAX22]

Some things I learned is that make sure the baking soda rinse is just that. A good rinse then rinse it off with clean water. If you leave it in the baking soda to long it isnt very good for it.

After I oil it once or twice with neatsfoot oil and it has thoroughly dried I will do a coat or two of something like sno-seal or picards or montana pitch blend or similar. Once that is done I have not scene any kind of transfer of the reaction to anything else. There shouldnt be a transfer except to maybe other leather since its a chemical reaction and not an actual die.

One thing I noticed is that sometimes the leather will come off do to the flesh side being exposed and could possibly look like rub off.

[robs456]

Some things I learned is that make sure the baking soda rinse is just that. A good rinse then rinse it off with clean water. If you leave it in the baking soda to long it isnt very good for it.

Interesting, I read elsewhere on here that you should dip it long enough for the reaction to stop which makes sense as no reaction=acid neutralized, at least in my mind but I'm no chemist though.

What happens if you put it in the baking soda too long?

There shouldnt be a transfer except to maybe other leather since its a chemical reaction and not an actual die.

Yeah, that's why I was so happy to have found "The Miracle of 'Roon". I love it, just too bad I ran into this little snag.

[TwinOaks]

Over soaking in an alkaline solution will degrade the leather a bit. Leather (as we get it) is a little bit on the acidic side of the pH scale. I think this is a result of the tanning process and one of the attributes that helps it last so long.

[robs456]

OK, then that's definitely good to know, thanks.

[MADMAX22]

I only know a little about all this stuff from what I have learned from others and from experimenting.

Chuck Burrows besides being amazing at making era style leather works is also the most knowledgable person I have noticed in the area of vinegaroon and similar things relating to doing leather work from the time areas he has studied. There are several post of his that he goes into great detail on the vinegaroon processes and such and is well worth checking out if you can search for his post.

[RobDude30]

I've made a few things with vinegaroon and have not had any rub off. I think I remember reading that a vinegarooned item still needs to be sealed just as would normally be done with a dyed item. I don't remember if it was one of Chuck's posts or not. I always use Resolene as a top coat.

[robs456]

Chuck Burrows besides being amazing at making era style leather works is also the most knowledgable person I have noticed in the area of vinegaroon and similar things relating to doing leather work from the time areas he has studied. There are several post of his that he goes into great detail on the vinegaroon processes and such and is well worth checking out if you can search for his post.

Thanks, I checked around a bit and found a post by Chuck in another forum (is it allowed to link to other forums?) that was very informational.

Seems like I did a bunch of errors:

Not enough iron in the 'roon, as all of mine had dissolved.

Not rinsing in water before dipping in Baking Soda.

Putting it in the Baking Soda way too long.

Not rinsing with water after the BS bath.

Not sealing afterwards.

That's a good list to remember if you're dabbling with vinegaroon.

I'm pretty sure the rub off problem comes down to not sealing the belt though, and I'll rectify that ASAP.

[Denise]

Yes, it is definitely allowed to link to other forums. If there is good information available for leatherworker's, we are all for sharing where and how to get it. The only thing we can't do is post copywrited materials here due to copywrite law. So put up the link, please!

[robs456]

Yes, it is definitely allowed to link to other forums. If there is good information available for leatherworker's, we are all for shareing where and how to get it. The only thing we can't do is post copywrited materials here due to copywrite law. So put up the link, please!

Thanks, here's the link:

http://www.cascity.c...e;topic=26091.0

Mr. Burrows' post is the second to last at the bottom of the page.