Kate Spade Kindle Covers

[gary]

Interesting all round.

I've just had a request for a matching diary cover, a portfolio cover and a wallet. The customer says he can get all these from high-end shops in London but wants handmade and unique. The kind of customer I like.

In contrast, I've also had two speculative e-mails from a top-end designer wanting 'samples'. No names so no pack-drill but this is a designer-label fashion house who wanted, initially, samples of braided dresses which is out of my league and then, when I told them so, they wanted examples of leather accessories. No specifics, no outlines, no guidance at all and most obvious - no designs to work to. Now, I can see that a small producer could spend quite some working out some nice accessories and making up samples. The top designer then basically gets all that work to display with no design input and, after slapping their designer label on it, hikes the price up by putting a few zeroes at the end and the small guy gets zip. And I can't see the big guy putting my label on his display.

Perhaps the designer doesn't want to give away his designs in a cut-throat industry but I see no protection for the small guy who could invest a lot of effort, resources and time to provide free design input to a mega-bucks fashion house.

I've also just repaired a 'leather' belt for a relative who had bought a Calvin Klein or similar (I forgive him - the relative, not Calvin Klein or whoever it was). Shiny plastic, poorly finished, machine stitched, probably cost three times what I'd charge and lasted nearly two weeks before needing a repair. And the consumer goes back for more of the same. Maybe I should change my middle names to Calvin Klein Christian Dior Gucci Prada etc so my maker's stamp could be all things to all men.

On the positive side, given the size zero models we have, I wouldn't use much leather making a dress or three. On the negative side, I'd have to use at least 1 square foot of leather for the maker's stamp.

Gary

[CitizenKate]

I think name brand designers are always on the lookout for people who do work they would like to include in their products. I've done some business with a couple of them, now, who purchased samples. One saw my web site, and another found me on Etsy.

But at the end of the day, I don't think they can afford us, even if they charge 10 times the amount for the item that we would normally sell it for. I believe it's probably because what they are really selling is the marketing itself. They put all their money into marketing and very little into the manufacture of the product. Even as much as they charge for something, their profit margin isn't as high as you might guess, but they sell a lot more.

On the other hand, most of us either can't afford the kind of marketing they do to creates the mass illusion that is their designer image, or don't have the marketing savvy. Personally, I wouldn't market my products that way even if I did have the savvy and the money, because I believe in selling something that is truly of value, rather than just a bunch of marketing hype. I have a feeling a lot of you feel the same way about it.

I still think there are a few things we can and should do to improve our images as independent makers, though, without spending a lot, and without compromising how we represent ourselves. Put a little more effort into well-designed packaging and tagging. Think of the packaging as part of the product. Take a critical look at the channels you are using to get your product seen, craft fair displays, product literature, etc... Do they look professional, or amateur? Do you have quality images of items you make, or just snapshots? If you have customers telling you what they got was much better than what was pictured, it's probably a sign that you could charge more for your work if you produced better images of it. You can improve them a ton without spending a lot. These all might seem like little things, but if you don't think they matter, think again.

Kate

[gary]

Just had a thought and checked the top designer's e-mail. Doesn't want accessory samples made up, just wants images.

Am I paranoid or rightly suspicious?

Gary

[dirtclod]

Gary i belive your a 100% right, cause it sure sounds like they just want to see your ideal and then claim it.

I got a email the other day wanting to buy some things in bulk and they wanted to know the prices of what i make. I told them the price range and all they wanted to order was the highest priced item and they didn't even know what they were ordering. My first though in the very first email was it's a con and i was really sure after the second email that it's a con. Their going to pay me a with a stolen credit card, fake money order or do a charge back. I left it alone.

[gary]

Dirtclod, makes me feel better to know I'm not just a bit paranoid.

I've found the custom oredering helps as you have to have a dialogue with the customer and, if they're trying to rip you off, they generally haven't got the patience to send e-mails back and forth answering questions - they just want enough information to get their hands on your money.

But, back to the original thread, sort of, I've always admired (in a jealous kind of way) those companies that put their huge logos on items and the customer pays well over the odds for the item and then walks around as an advertisement for the company and actually pays for the privilege. The advertising exec who thought of that was having a really good day.

Gary

[jimmy eng]

I am a fashion designer (I have my own clothing label and I also do work in costume design) and what a lot of people don't understand is that it's about selling an 'aspiration', the lifestyle/image of what the customer wants to have or relates to. The companies that fit the image of what the customer is looking for will get the profits and having a lot of media exposure helps a great deal. What you're buying is the name a majority of the time.

To 'play' in this fashion field you've got to understand that it's all business, a lot is marketing, when it comes to the bigger companies very little is the design itself. The smaller independant business can have an edge in the market by focusing in on design as the selling point, that's a big advantage against the large businesses as it would be hard to sell a name no one knows.

So to use Kate Spade and any leather worker as an example, if you're familiar with Kate Spade the brand, what image comes to mind when you hear the name? See it from a business marketing point of view, no personal judgements. Can you see how that they've got products selling on Amazon? Can you see who would buy their products? Now envision yourself or some who works with custom leather craft. There's a big difference in the market between the two. When I think of leather craft, some words I think of are country, old fashioned, craft, tradition, labor, care, forgotten. To a mass market, craft has a slightly 'negative' connotation because you would associate it with what kids do at school or grandmas knitting. And country does get made fun of. And also in the end, the product has to look good and to an average consumer who doesn't know about making anything, they go by visual presentation and information given to them (word by mouth, websites, catalogue). If a bag looks like it came out of a barn, who would want that? Certainly not a Kate Spade kind of person but a local country person probably would, not everyone understands what you have or what it takes.

So use what you have and what you know and play by the guidelines of your target market. Use descriptive words like 'handcrafted' instead of 'handmade', it sounds more special. Use 'heirloom quality' to describe somethings longevity, because it's about a product that fits into a customers lifestyle/image. It's seldom ever about selling something based on the product alone (like a forklift for example), it needs a story if it's about fashion.

The best example of a leather worker that broaches into a niche market (I just found their website last week) would be barrettalley.com. I think he/they has the perfect business model for this industry if you want to have a broader audience. The site explains why they do things the way they do, what making a leather good takes, what materials they use and how they use it without going into specific details, it justifies their prices. The average person usually won't want to read that/can't understand specific details/terminology and it's enough to keep a person interested and the goods interesting. They know who they're talking to.

Whew! Hope that helped somewhat in understanding the other side of the coin.

[Randy Cornelius]

Personally, I don't know what a Kindle is or who Kate Spade is so I guess I am happy being ignorante of both....

[jimmy eng]

Personally, I don't know what a Kindle is or who Kate Spade is so I guess I am happy being ignorante of both....

Edited March 26, 2011 by jimmy eng

[jimmy eng]

On a similar vein of topic, this Salvatore Ferragamo bag is very leather worker and commercial. http://www.bagsnob.com/2011/03/ferrragamo_saddle_bag.html

It's a saddle style bag with whipstitching on all edges and gold buckles, which I'm sure 80% of people on this website can make. It looks plain but in fashion terms it's 'understated' and whimsical and costs $1,990.

[CitizenKate]

To 'play' in this fashion field you've got to understand that it's all business, a lot is marketing, when it comes to the bigger companies very little is the design itself. The smaller independant business can have an edge in the market by focusing in on design as the selling point, that's a big advantage against the large businesses as it would be hard to sell a name no one knows.

So to use Kate Spade and any leather worker as an example, if you're familiar with Kate Spade the brand, what image comes to mind when you hear the name? See it from a business marketing point of view, no personal judgements. Can you see how that they've got products selling on Amazon? Can you see who would buy their products? Now envision yourself or some who works with custom leather craft. There's a big difference in the market between the two. When I think of leather craft, some words I think of are country, old fashioned, craft, tradition, labor, care, forgotten. To a mass market, craft has a slightly 'negative' connotation because you would associate it with what kids do at school or grandmas knitting. And country does get made fun of. And also in the end, the product has to look good and to an average consumer who doesn't know about making anything, they go by visual presentation and information given to them (word by mouth, websites, catalogue). If a bag looks like it came out of a barn, who would want that? Certainly not a Kate Spade kind of person but a local country person probably would, not everyone understands what you have or what it takes.

So use what you have and what you know and play by the guidelines of your target market. Use descriptive words like 'handcrafted' instead of 'handmade', it sounds more special. Use 'heirloom quality' to describe somethings longevity, because it's about a product that fits into a customers lifestyle/image. It's seldom ever about selling something based on the product alone (like a forklift for example), it needs a story if it's about fashion.

Those are some useful insights, I totally agree with all of this (and I know Johanna will love your comments about the marketing use of the word "craft" - we've had a running debate about that ever since LW began). One of the challenges of an artisan is that we tend to get emotionally attached to what we make. That is good and bad at the same time. Part of the marketing appeal of something made by hand is that it was made with a lot of personal attention ("made with love"). But it also sometimes very often clouds our judgment as to what will sell in a given market, how to present it to that market (assuming any thought is given to the market to begin with), and how our work compares with other choices available to that same market. I see this all the time, and am probably guilty of it myself. After all, if we create a design we like, why shouldn't everyone want it?

More to write, but I'll have to try to come back to this later...

Kate