Durable Dot Vs Baby Dot Snaps?

[lazybum]

Hi im new to leathercraft and I noticed that snap setters have either the "durable dot" kind or the "baby dot" kind. Is there a difference between these two kind of snaps? Which is more common? If I buy a baby dot snap setter then that means I won't be able to use it with durable dot snaps?

And there is this setter in springfield leather: http://springfieldleather.com/store/product/23489/Setter%2CLine-24-%26-20-Snap%2CAnvil/

According to the description it can be used for both line 20 and 24 snaps. Is that really possible or is it too good to be true?

[busted]

Hi im new to leathercraft and I noticed that snap setters have either the "durable dot" kind or the "baby dot" kind. Is there a difference between these two kind of snaps? Which is more common? If I buy a baby dot snap setter then that means I won't be able to use it with durable dot snaps?

And there is this setter in springfield leather: http://springfieldle...0-Snap%2CAnvil/

According to the description it can be used for both line 20 and 24 snaps. Is that really possible or is it too good to be true?

Their name is durable snap. They are manufactured in either a line 20 or a line 24. I made a tool for the line 20 snap. I did not like the line 24 tool. These snaps have a nasty habit of not locking when you use the standard setting tool. The tool is supposed to roll the snap post down and lock it to the other half of the snap. I took the tool and stuck it in a drill press and filed the outer edge off, this forms the roll over. It now rolls the snap post down and flattens it against the other half of the snap. They don't come off.

[lazybum]

Their name is durable snap. They are manufactured in either a line 20 or a line 24. I made a tool for the line 20 snap. I did not like the line 24 tool. These snaps have a nasty habit of not locking when you use the standard setting tool. The tool is supposed to roll the snap post down and lock it to the other half of the snap. I took the tool and stuck it in a drill press and filed the outer edge off, this forms the roll over. It now rolls the snap post down and flattens it against the other half of the snap. They don't come off.

I see. So there is no difference between durable dot and baby dot snaps besides their manufacturers?

Will buying a dedicated line 20 setter and line 24 setter for the respective snaps be better?

[Art]

No.

Ligne 24 are also known as Durable Dot Snaps

Ligne 20 are often called Baby Dot Snaps

Ligne 16 are called Segma Snaps

Then there are wire snaps which are called Glove snaps

There are a bunch of others especially in the canvas trade.

Art

I see. So there is no difference between durable dot and baby dot snaps besides their manufacturers?

Will buying a dedicated line 20 setter and line 24 setter for the respective snaps be better?

[lazybum]

Alright thanks! I was getting confused by all the naming.

[jasonsmith]

No.

Ligne 24 are also known as Durable Dot Snaps

Ligne 20 are often called Baby Dot Snaps

Ligne 16 are called Segma Snaps

Then there are wire snaps which are called Glove snaps

There are a bunch of others especially in the canvas trade.

Art

What's the difference between all of those?

I've got 5/6 ounce leather half shoulder from Tandys I plan on making armbands with that will snap together.

[Art]

Hi Jason,

Ligne 24 and 20 are the standard snaps, they are different in diameter. Ligne 20 snaps usually have a 3/16 post and are for 5oz to 7oz leather. Ligne 24 are bigger and usually have a 5/16 post and are for 8oz to 10oz leather. Those are general guidelines, you may be able to put a 24 on 5/6oz by setting harder, you just have to try them.

Art

What's the difference between all of those?

I've got 5/6 ounce leather half shoulder from Tandys I plan on making armbands with that will snap together.

[jasonsmith]

Hi Jason,

Ligne 24 and 20 are the standard snaps, they are different in diameter. Ligne 20 snaps usually have a 3/16 post and are for 5oz to 7oz leather. Ligne 24 are bigger and usually have a 5/16 post and are for 8oz to 10oz leather. Those are general guidelines, you may be able to put a 24 on 5/6oz by setting harder, you just have to try them.

Art

Thanks. I'll look into the Line 20.

Do you have any info on the Line 16 and Glove snaps with regards to 5/6 ounce leather armbands?

I've been looking around, but can't find much info on these with regards to application. But sounds like the Line 20 should work at least.

I'd like to get nickel plated brass. I've got some spots that are nickel plated steel, and some that are nickel plasted brass. And the steel will rust. I'll have to check to see if the Tandy's are nickel plated brass or steel.

[Art]

The Ligne 16 Segma Snaps are a little different, a male stud on top goes into a hole, sorry it is the only way to put it. They don't hold as well as the Ligne 20 and 24.

Art

Thanks. I'll look into the Line 20.

Do you have any info on the Line 16 and Glove snaps with regards to 5/6 ounce leather armbands?

I've been looking around, but can't find much info on these with regards to application. But sounds like the Line 20 should work at least.

I'd like to get nickel plated brass. I've got some spots that are nickel plated steel, and some that are nickel plasted brass. And the steel will rust. I'll have to check to see if the Tandy's are nickel plated brass or steel.

[jasonsmith]

The Ligne 16 Segma Snaps are a little different, a male stud on top goes into a hole, sorry it is the only way to put it. They don't hold as well as the Ligne 20 and 24.

Art

Thanks. Looks like I'll probably go with the 20 then since I have 5/6 ounce leather. I'm guessing those glove snaps aren't any good compared to the line 20?

[Art]

Glove snaps are the ones with the little paper clip like wires in the receiver part that holds onto the stud, they are even smaller than segma snaps (Ligne 16).

Art

Thanks. Looks like I'll probably go with the 20 then since I have 5/6 ounce leather. I'm guessing those glove snaps aren't any good compared to the line 20?

[jasonsmith]

Glove snaps are the ones with the little paper clip like wires in the receiver part that holds onto the stud, they are even smaller than segma snaps (Ligne 16).

Art

I'm gonna go with the Line 20 since it looks like that is the best. I found that you have to get a $20 setter/anvil kit for the glove snaps. Where as you can get a setter and anvil cheap for the Line 20 snaps.

[Luke Hatley]

I'm gonna go with the Line 20 since it looks like that is the best. I found that you have to get a $20 setter/anvil kit for the glove snaps. Where as you can get a setter and anvil cheap for the Line 20 snaps.

I wouuld go with the line 24, they are easy to set and will be much stronger, compared to the line 20.......I M H O.........

[jasonsmith]

I wouuld go with the line 24, they are easy to set and will be much stronger, compared to the line 20.......I M H O.........

I can't. I'm using 5/6 ounce weight leather which is ideal for line 20 snaps. Line 24 snaps are for 8/9 ounce leather.

This is just an armband anyways, and with it being 2" wide. I'll be using 2 snaps.

This is a pic I found searching around and this is how I plan to arrange my snaps. Though, I'll only have 2 as it will not be adjustable:

[jasonsmith]

What size punch is used on the Line 20 snaps? None of the sellers of Line 20 spots mention what punch to get.

[pgallin]

FYI,

"Durable Dot" and "Baby Dot" are trademarked names for snaps, originally made by Dot, and now owned by Scovill. They are functionally the same; the difference between them is the size of the snaps. The sizes are commonly referred to as ligne 24 and ligne 20. Ligne was originally a French term for the measurement of a unit of length. In the 9th century, German button makers used the term to measure the diameter of their buttons, and that is how it is commonly used today for snaps. There are 40 lignes per inch, so a ligne 24 snap has a button that is 24/40" in diameter and a ligne 20 snap has a button that is 1/2" in diameter (20/40).

[Art]

The reason for all this trivial ephemera, and the use of the word ligne instead of line for these old measurements is that ligne = 1/40 inch and Line = 1/4 barleycorn or about 1/12 inch (3 barleycorns per inch), a good reason for the metric system, but I have left instructions that they are to put a English caliper, a yardstick, and a set of Whitworth tools in my coffin in case I run into an Austin Healey on the other side.

Art

FYI,

"Durable Dot" and "Baby Dot" are trademarked names for snaps, originally made by Dot, and now owned by Scovill. They are functionally the same; the difference between them is the size of the snaps. The sizes are commonly referred to as ligne 24 and ligne 20. Ligne was originally a French term for the measurement of a unit of length. In the 9th century, German button makers used the term to measure the diameter of their buttons, and that is how it is commonly used today for snaps. There are 40 lignes per inch, so a ligne 24 snap has a button that is 24/40" in diameter and a ligne 20 snap has a button that is 1/2" in diameter (20/40).

[jasonsmith]

I did some test pieces. And I think the Line 20 leaves too much of a gap between the leather. I was planning on using 5/6 ounce leather for armbands. But I think that is too thick. I think I'm going to try 1/2 ounce leather for the armbands with Line 16 snaps. It looks like the line 16 snaps are more flush compared to Line 20. Only thing is I'll have to figure out if the Line 16 will work on 1/2 ounce leather.

[Art]

Hi Jason,

Ligne 16 are Segma snaps and don't hold as well as Baby Dots. A little judicious grinding on the posts will make them set tighter.

Art

I did some test pieces. And I think the Line 20 leaves too much of a gap between the leather. I was planning on using 5/6 ounce leather for armbands. But I think that is too thick. I think I'm going to try 1/2 ounce leather for the armbands with Line 16 snaps. It looks like the line 16 snaps are more flush compared to Line 20. Only thing is I'll have to figure out if the Line 16 will work on 1/2 ounce leather.

[jasonsmith]

Hi Jason,

Ligne 16 are Segma snaps and don't hold as well as Baby Dots. A little judicious grinding on the posts will make them set tighter.

Art

Are you saying you can grind on the Line 16 posts to let the set tighter when using thin leather like 1/2 ounce?

The thing I didn't like on the Line 20 snaps is when snapped together. There is a gap between the two pieces of leather which I didn't like with regards to an armband. The line 16 look like they snap flush. And I think they are used for thinner leather compared to Line 20. Also, I found the Line 20 very hard to unsnap. Since I'm using these for armbands, I don't think them not holding as well as Line 20 would be a problem since they aren't holding any weight.

[Art]

No I was referring to grinding the posts on the ligne 20 snaps. The 16s may work better for you.

Art

Are you saying you can grind on the Line 16 posts to let the set tighter when using thin leather like 1/2 ounce?

The thing I didn't like on the Line 20 snaps is when snapped together. There is a gap between the two pieces of leather which I didn't like with regards to an armband. The line 16 look like they snap flush. And I think they are used for thinner leather compared to Line 20. Also, I found the Line 20 very hard to unsnap. Since I'm using these for armbands, I don't think them not holding as well as Line 20 would be a problem since they aren't holding any weight.

[lazybum]

The reason for all this trivial ephemera, and the use of the word ligne instead of line for these old measurements is that ligne = 1/40 inch and Line = 1/4 barleycorn or about 1/12 inch (3 barleycorns per inch), a good reason for the metric system, but I have left instructions that they are to put a English caliper, a yardstick, and a set of Whitworth tools in my coffin in case I run into an Austin Healey on the other side.

Art

Thanks educating us! This will help me remember the diameters of the snaps better

By the way if set properly line 24 snaps can used to thinner leather (3-4oz) right?

Ive set the female part on a 3-4oz piece (first time setting), even though the post stuck out quite a lot. It doesn't look screwed though (i hope >.<). The male piece will be used with a screw on concho so no setting needed. The snap works but it seems to come off more easily than I expected, as i had previously heard that new snaps are incredibly difficult to pull apart. That shouldn't be because I screwed up the snap somehow right?

[Art]

Since many different companies make these from different materials, some will hold differently than others.

Art

Thanks educating us! This will help me remember the diameters of the snaps better

By the way if set properly line 24 snaps can used to thinner leather (3-4oz) right?

Ive set the female part on a 3-4oz piece (first time setting), even though the post stuck out quite a lot. It doesn't look screwed though (i hope >.<). The male piece will be used with a screw on concho so no setting needed. The snap works but it seems to come off more easily than I expected, as i had previously heard that new snaps are incredibly difficult to pull apart. That shouldn't be because I screwed up the snap somehow right?

[skipj]

Thanks for the explanation, I've never been able to figure them out.

SkipJ

[ramrod]

The tool is supposed to roll the snap post down and lock it to the other half of the snap. I took the tool and stuck it in a drill press and filed the outer edge off, this forms the roll over. It now rolls the snap post down and flattens it against the other half of the snap. They don't come off.

busted.....this is interesting. but i'm a little slow and in need of a picture for this one. i don't understand what exactly the reworked tool looks like. do you have a pic?